Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

Rupert Isaacson speaks with Dr. Amanda Minervini, founder of  EGLHE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience), a nonprofit equine program in Colorado Springs, and professor at Colorado College.

 EGLHE began taking shape during the pandemic, in response to a worsening mental health crisis. It was built around the preferences of one horse: Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred who raced as a stallion, was not gelded until after age nine, and was labeled dangerous. Originally intended for Amanda's college students, the program is now open to everyone. It brings together consent-based horsemanship, classical in-hand work, liberty, scent work, and good management, with a core belief that horses have a voice and that humans don't have to be in charge.

The conversation walks through how Amanda layers a session so that a horse can safely run free through the woods with people who have never been near a horse, how scent work for horses can build confidence in a spooky horse, and why a horse must always be regulated enough to learn. Amanda also shares what she observed with the medicine paint horses at a Lakota Sun Dance, and she and Rupert explore the sacred in equine-assisted work, consciousness, Saint Francis of Assisi, and how zooanthropology helps her bridge methods rather than choose just one.

✨ "I'm trying to show humans that they don't have to be in charge with horses, that it can be a shared enterprise." – Dr. Amanda Minervini

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• What  EGLHE is, and why Amanda started it in response to the mental health crisis during the pandemic
• How Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred labeled "dangerous," became the horse  EGLHE was built around
• Why good management (herd life, a big pasture, free-choice hay) was the foundation of Jimmy's change
• How Amanda layers a session, from herd observation to arena liberty work to free movement in the woods
• Why she never assumes, and works with the horse she has on that day
• What scent work for horses is, and how to progress from visible treats in an arena to open searching on the trail
• Why olfactory seeking work may build curiosity and confidence in spooky horses
• Why a horse must be regulated enough to learn, and what to do when fear is too big
• How novel movement and BDNF connect horse wellbeing, human focus, and Amanda's own 17 years of kung fu
• What Amanda observed about the medicine paint horses and their caretakers at a Lakota Sun Dance
• How Saint Francis of Assisi and the idea of humans as "holobiomes" shape Amanda's view of connection
• How a zooanthropology lens helps Amanda act as a bridge between methods, disciplines, and cultures
• Why Rupert believes the synthesis of many methods is the next generation of equine-assisted work

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

07:38 Amanda describes Jimmy's past: a stallion on the track, gelded after age nine, labeled dangerous, yet the only one he ever hurt was himself.

11:15 A grieving paint mare in her late 20s, who had lost her best friend days earlier, crosses the ranch uninvited and canters alongside the group.

13:39 Amanda breaks down the two-and-a-half-hour session: herd observation, arena liberty with a ball and tarp, a lead-line walk, then liberty in the woods.

22:14 Amanda credits 17 years of kung fu with giving her the focus to succeed in graduate school.

36:00 From treats on barrel tops to hidden scents to scattered finds on the trail, Amanda outlines how scent work progresses.

37:32 Riding Jimmy with a rein keeper, Amanda lets him search freely, and he chooses to go over poles without being asked.

44:39 Amanda's golden rule: there is no learning in fear, and she has promised her horses she will never put them in a freak-out situation.

53:37 Amanda describes students repeating in post-session questionnaires that they felt more balanced, more focused, and even more willing to do homework.

1:19:40 Amanda spends two days with the Sun Dance's medicine paint horses and sees them grow eager when it's time for their role.

1:23:37 Rupert recalls his horse Clue leaving the herd to sniff and lick a child in a wheelchair who had drowned and seemed unresponsive, and the child becoming responsive.

1:40:54 Rupert tells how his uncle, a pathologist, explained why most people misunderstand the placebo effect.

1:59:28 Rupert shares that a new Horse Boy center is opening in County Cork, Ireland, with the prime minister turning the sod.

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Dr. Amanda Minervini – Professor, Colorado College; Founder,  EGLHE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience) https://amandaminervini.weebly.com
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

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https://ntls.co
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the horse and the animal is kind of an anchor that keeps you in the present." – Krisztina Molnar

Deep in the forest near Debrecen in eastern Hungary, a six-year-old foundation has become a home for animal-assisted therapy of every kind: clinical equine-assisted psychotherapy, work with neurodivergent children, family therapy, group therapy for children, adolescents and parents, and sessions for adults, alongside a small riding school, dressage and a vaulting team. Clinical psychologist Krisztina Molnar leads its clinical work with children and parents, supported by a team, 14 horses and three therapy dogs.

The original plan was four to six horses and a quiet life in her "fairy forest." Instead, the foundation grew one family, one colleague and one need at a time, guided by a single principle: keep running something only as long as it serves everyone in the story, meaning the clients, the animals and the therapists. Along the way the forest itself became a therapeutic tool, complete with a wishing forest, a mound where problems can be blown away, and a transparent indoor arena that clients describe as a safety bubble inside nature.

Rupert and Krisztina explore why nature can take clients deep very quickly, and why that is both a chance and a danger. They discuss how a classic "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, what Winnicott's transitional space and the "wise mode" of schema therapy have to do with the forest, Hungary's relationship with mental health and transgenerational trauma, the difference between healthy fantasy and delusion, and why the horse is the anchor that keeps a person in the present moment.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How a foundation planned for four to six horses grew into a multi-program center with 14 horses, three dogs and a full team
• Why the guiding rule is to run something only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists alike
• Why mentally healthy therapy horses need a natural environment, and how that shapes therapy before a session even starts
• Why the forest can take clients deep very quickly, and why that brings both a chance to grow and a risk of falling apart
• Why children who are overloaded by impressions may fear the forest, and what they are really afraid of
• How having a forest, an arena, a small indoor and an inside room lets the therapist tune the setting to each client's safety needs
• How a transparent indoor arena, chosen because it was the cheapest option, works as a "safety bubble" and a transitional space
• How magical places in the forest, like the wishing forest and the mound where problems are blown away, are built around clients' psychological needs
• How the diagnostic "three wishes" task becomes a fairy tale, and how to translate a child's wish into an underlying need
• What schema therapy is, and how the forest may help clients connect to their inner "wise mode"
• How to tell healthy fantasy from delusion: does it connect you to yourself and others, or disconnect you?
• Why the horse acts as an anchor to the present moment
• How Krisztina sees dressage as maintaining harmony through constant rebalancing, and why training of any kind helps therapy horses handle more situations

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

00:03:40 Krisztina introduces herself as a clinical psychologist specializing in children and parents, certified to include her therapy dogs in sessions

00:07:10 She reveals the original plan: four to six horses and a peaceful, quiet life in her fairy forest, which is not what happened

00:08:50 Krisztina shares the one principle that guides every program: it runs only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists

00:22:50 She explains that frightened clients are not afraid of nature itself but of their own impulses projected onto the forest

00:41:50 Krisztina describes nature as a model of resilience: a tree meeting an obstacle grows around it instead of trying the same way 100 times

00:45:30 The transparent indoor arena, chosen as the cheapest option, turns out to be the best space for therapy, and clients call it a safety bubble in the forest

00:51:00 The wishing forest story: Krisztina once wished for six horses and now has 14, so be careful what you wish for

00:56:30 She shows how the "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, and how a wish for one more toy car reveals a need to be heard

01:16:40 Rupert asks whether there are real fairies in her forest, and Krisztina answers, "Of course there are"

01:30:30 Krisztina draws the line between fantasy and delusion: imagination that connects you to yourself and your relationships, versus imagination that cuts you off

01:49:30 Krisztina tells her own real-life fairy tale of asking the fairies for a life close to nature and horses, and finding more than she ever imagined

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Krisztina Molnar – Clinical Psychologist, ÉletrevaLÓ Gyermekekért Alapítvány https://www.eletrevalodebrecen.com
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

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📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

 ✨ "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data." – Laila Rahmatian

 Laila Rahmatian is an autism mom and former NASA engineer, originally from Houston and living in Indianapolis, Indiana when her son Donatello was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in October 2024 — now based near Frankfurt, Germany.

Unlike most guests on this show, Laila isn't a practitioner — she's a service user. After her son's diagnosis, she brought her engineering background to bear on his care, systematically tracking data across a comparison of therapy approaches and, eventually, more than 70 Horse Boy Method sessions.

This conversation covers Laila's diagnosis journey, why she walked away from a well-regarded autism center within minutes of touring it, the chance referral that led her family to Horse Boy Method after relocating to Germany, and the session-by-session developmental milestones her data captured — from a son who could barely stay on a horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• Why the first signs of Donatello's autism showed up not as a language delay but as a failure to respond to his own name — until a summer camp counselor discovered it wasn't the name he needed to hear, it was his mother's voice
• How Laila's background as a former NASA engineer, and later an ADHD coach and tutor, shaped her instinct to research every option rather than accept the first professional's recommended protocol
• Why Laila and her husband initially tried to "rule out" the diagnosis entirely, and what changed their minds
• What made Laila walk out of a well-regarded autism therapy center within ten minutes of touring it, and why environment turned out to matter as much as method
• How a chance referral from a school in Germany — not a marketing campaign — led Laila's family to Horse Boy Method for the first time
• Why Laila decided to start formally recording data on her son's sessions, and how skepticism from others became the reason she started tracking numbers
• What Laila's session-by-session data showed across roughly 70 sessions — from a child who could barely stay on the horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech
• How working with multiple Horse Boy and Movement Method practitioners across Germany gave Laila a way to compare approaches and see which data patterns held up
• Why Laila enrolled in Movement Method training herself rather than only bringing her son to sessions, and how that changed her ability to support him at home
• What Laila is now planning for her family's next chapter — a "Horse Boy pilgrimage" across the practitioner network in Europe

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:01:15] Rupert introduces Laila as a mother tracking hard data on her autistic son's progress — and a former NASA scientist — flipping the show's usual practitioner-focused format

[00:06:33] Laila recalls getting her son's diagnosis over the phone while driving, and telling the doctor she felt like they were "out to get my insurance money"

[00:13:26] Laila breaks down in tears within ten minutes of touring a well-known autism therapy center, describing its sterile, neon-lit rooms as feeling like an asylum

[00:29:30] Laila shares getting fired from a substitute teaching job at a Christian school for swearing in class — an unexpected twist in the chain of events that push her family toward the move to Germany

[00:33:26] Laila recounts thinking "Horse Boy" was simply the German word for horse therapy, and mistakenly believing Rupert didn't speak English before their first meeting

[00:39:50] Laila describes watching Donatello ride for the first time and hearing Rupert mention oxytocin and neuroplasticity — the moment she starts to move past her skepticism

[00:54:52] Laila explains why she started formally logging data on every session: "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data"

[00:59:35] Laila walks through the data from session 19, when Donatello began saying "on" and "off" without prompting, answered yes/no questions at school, and slept through the night for the first time

[01:20:38] Laila describes session 63, when Donatello pointed and said "That way" while on the horse

[01:20:59] Laila recalls a session with practitioner Carla Brahms where Donatello sang and moved his hands on horseback, bringing Carla to tears

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Laila Rahmatian https://www.instagram.com/lailaalieh/
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co 
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com 
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home 
https://longridehome.com 
https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh 
https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh 
https://youtube.com/@longridehome 

New Trails Learning Systems 
https://ntls.co 
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not that I gave up. I switched." – Carolina Lockwood 

Carolina Lockwood joins Rupert Isaacson from Bariloche, in the Patagonia region of Argentina, where she has spent more than 30 years building equine-assisted work from the ground up — first blending art therapy with horses, then training directly with Rupert in Texas, then running an intensive Horse Boy–style program, then coaching, and now facilitating horse-based energy healing.

What makes Carolina's story distinctive is the environment she's built it in. In the areas around Bariloche, horse theft for meat is a real and recurring danger — over the years Carolina has lost five horses to thieves, including cases where stolen horses were found slaughtered. She talks candidly about tracking horses down with the police, the informal social protections that eventually stabilized her herd's safety, and the anxiety that never fully goes away even after 30 years without an incident.

The conversation traces her full arc: building a team of six staff and 30 kids a week at the height of her program, learning to read burnout in both horses and herself, closing that chapter deliberately rather than abandoning the work altogether, and evolving into equine coaching (trained through Kathy Pike and the Linda Kohanov lineage), liberty work (with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne), and now a year-plus training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico. Along the way, Rupert and Carolina dig into what "energy work" actually means in practical terms, and why practitioners shouldn't feel locked into one rigid model for life.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How Carolina moved from art therapy and ceramics work with special-needs kids into equine-assisted work in Bariloche, Patagonia
• Why she traveled to Texas to train directly with Rupert after discovering the Horse Boy film
• What it's actually like running horses in a region where theft and slaughter for meat is a recurring, organized threat — and how she and her family tracked down stolen horses with the police
• Why gauchos' and polo horses are rarely stolen while therapy and pleasure horses are the ones targeted
• How Carolina rebuilt her herd's security by relocating and relying on informal community protection rather than fences or guns
• What her own "non-structure structure" for horse welfare looks like, built around free roaming, herd life, and trust — and how it differs from the fitness-and-conditioning approach used in Horse Boy Method
• How she learned to read burnout in a horse, including a beloved therapy horse who started biting handlers when he was "done"
• Why she eventually closed her intensive riding-based program on purpose, and how she thinks about that decision now
• How she transitioned into equine coaching, training with Kathy Pike and the lineage of Linda Kohanov in Colorado
• What liberty work with Jean-François Pignon and his student Celeste Solzenne taught her about horses reflecting a person's inner state
• How she began training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico, and what that work looks like in practice
• The story of a terminally ill client whose final wish involved Carolina's horses, and what it revealed to her about this kind of healing
• What Carolina's dream is for a future retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia, and why she's decided to say it out loud

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode
[00:02:02] Carolina's path from art therapy and ceramics to horses, and the natural horsemanship training with Paul Walker that changed her perspective
[00:06:27] Discovering the Horse Boy film, writing to Rupert, and going to Texas to train
[00:11:56] The reality of horse theft and slaughter for meat in the mountains around Bariloche
[00:15:22] Tracking down stolen horses with the police, and the ones she never got back
[00:28:36] Carolina's "non-structure structure" for horse welfare, compared with Horse Boy's fitness-based system
[00:38:00] A beloved therapy horse starts biting handlers — reading the signs of equine burnout
[00:51:00] Carolina's own burnout, and the deliberate decision to close her intensive program
[00:59:42] Liberty training with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne
[01:19:00] The story of a terminally ill client and what happened in her final horse session
[01:32:55] Carolina's dream of a future healing retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned
Carolina Lockwood – Equine-assisted practitioner, coach & energy healing facilitator
Email: [email protected]
Patreon Support
https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home
https://longridehome.com
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New Trails Learning Systems
https://ntls.co
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not about the job or the wages. You have to love it with absolute passion." – Helen Picha

Helen Picha manages Liskennett Farm, a groundbreaking equine-assisted therapy center for children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilities in Granagh, County Limerick, Ireland, on the border of Limerick and Cork. She took over as manager two years ago after eleven years working alongside founder David Doyle, and now runs the 80-acre center — home to 23 horses across residential, day, and equine programs — that Rupert calls the cutting edge of best practice in equine-assisted therapy.

What sets Liskennett apart is scale paired with radical openness. Every Saturday, the farm runs a booking-free, fee-free open day that draws between 80 and 100 children, no appointment required, no family turned away. Its indoor arena, originally built for riding, has been repurposed entirely into a music, movement, and play space, because the horses and children preferred being outdoors. And many of Liskennett's horses are retired Thoroughbred racehorses, some placed at Cheltenham, brought down from the racing circuit through a careful, months-long retraining process before ever carrying a child.

In this conversation, Helen and Rupert trace Liskennett's origin story — from a 2012 Horse Boy demo, a young woman's tragic death, and a €3 million donation to a modern therapy campus — and dig into how the farm actually runs day to day: horse selection and retraining, staff burnout prevention, community integration through an inclusive fox hunt and horse show, and Liskennett's expansion into new satellite centers backed by €6 million in Irish government funding.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How Liskennett Farm evolved from an 80-acre burned-out stud farm into a state-of-the-art residential, day, and equine therapy hub serving hundreds of children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilities
• Why founder David Doyle built a "step in, step down, step out" model, letting families in crisis access residential support without being permanently separated
• What Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days look like, welcoming 80 to 100 children with no appointment, no fee, and no rush
• How the farm's Christmas open day scaled to 300 children in a single day, all riding and meeting Santa, with zero bookings and zero meltdowns
• Why Liskennett retired the original purpose of its indoor arena entirely, turning it into a music, movement, and play space instead
• How retired racehorses, many connected to the McManus racing family, are systematically retrained over six to twelve months before ever carrying a child
• What the "MMM Room" (Movement Method to Music) is, and how a chance visit from founder David Doyle's daughter Caroline inspired its creation
• How Liskennett integrates families into local community life through an inclusive fox hunt, agricultural show classes, and an annual fundraising concert
• Why Helen believes horsemanship fundamentals — temperament, soundness, and long, slow conditioning work — are the foundation of safe therapeutic riding
• How the farm is expanding with new satellite hubs in Charleville and Kanturk, backed by €6 million in HSE funding
• What Helen learned from an early personal loss that quietly shaped her approach to working with families years before she ever set foot in Liskennett
• How Helen and her team plan for staff burnout with rotating schedules, an open culture around asking for help, and regular team celebrations

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:04:50] Rupert traces how Liskennett came to exist: a 2012 Horse Boy demo organized by Shelley Murtagh, who died of a brain tumor three months later — and three years after that, an email from David Doyle leading to €3 million raised for the center

[00:09:02] Helen shares that at age 20 she had a daughter, Danielle, born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus, who lived 11 months — an experience that quietly planted the seed for her future work, long before she knew it

[00:12:13] Helen describes Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days: up to 100 children riding between 9:30am and 3:30pm, with no appointment required and no family turned away

[00:14:59] Last Christmas, 300 children went horse riding and met Santa in a single day with no booking system, and Helen says not one child had a meltdown

[00:25:00] Rupert recalls the moment eight nonverbal autistic boys galloped past him independently on Liskennett's ponies, taking instruction and riding single file at the canter

[00:31:43] Helen walks through how retired Thoroughbreds, including horses that placed at Cheltenham, are brought down from the racing circuit over six to twelve months before any child rides them

[00:47:16] Helen tells the story behind the "MMM Room" — inspired by watching founder David Doyle's autistic daughter Caroline light up at the sight of mirrors and music in an unrelated training room

[01:01:00] Helen reveals the scale of Liskennett's growth: a new satellite center in Kanturk backed by €6 million in HSE funding, with Ireland's Taoiseach turning the sod at the site

[01:20:40] Rupert and Helen recall Staker Wallace, a JP McManus racehorse, briefly reverting to old "racing brain" habits while walking into the Limerick Racecourse parade ring before settling back down

[01:43:57] Helen is coaxed into singing a verse of a Christy Moore song live on the show

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Helen Picha – Manager, Liskennett Farm / St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie/What-We-Do/Facilities/Liskennett-Farm
Liskennett Farm – Facebook  https://facebook.com/LiskennettETC
Liskennett Farm – Instagram  https://instagram.com/liskennettequinetherapy

St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home
 https://longridehome.com
https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh
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https://youtube.com/@longridehome

New Trails Learning Systems
https://ntls.co
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the worst thing that people can do is say no." – Nicola Hepburn

Equine Learning is a therapeutic and alternative education provision based at Wootton Park in Warwickshire, UK, founded by Nicola Hepburn in 2008 as one of the UK's earliest equine-facilitated learning organizations. Today it helps neurodivergent young people and adults with learning difficulties build academic, vocational, and life skills through horses — work that has grown from a small community project into a full alternative education provider funded largely through local authority contracts.

Equine Learning's post-16 students earn accredited qualifications entirely through hands-on coursework rather than sit-down exams, spend two to three years working at their own pace, and never number more than six students a day — a boutique model built on trust rather than test scores.

In this conversation, Nicola and Rupert dig into what it actually takes to fund and sustain a program like this: how to find and win local authority tenders, the property crises that nearly ended Equine Learning more than once, and the hard lessons about charging for services versus giving them away for free. Nicola also opens up about being homeless at 17 — an experience that shaped her mission to build the safe, inclusive space she needed as a teenager — and shares her master's research on educational trauma, plus her plans for a new wellness retreat program addressing menopause, grief, and midlife transitions.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How Nicola Hepburn's path into equine-facilitated learning began with a 2005 training course, and how she trained under a colleague of US pioneer Barbara Rector
• How Equine Learning evolved from a small 2006 community project for adults with learning difficulties into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent post-16 students
• Why Equine Learning's qualifications are entirely work-based and assessed through coursework rather than sit-down exams
• How local authority tendering works, including where to find tendering portals and how to write a winning bid
• Why persistence matters even after a tender rejection, and what Nicola learned from bids that didn't succeed
• Why Nicola caps her education program at six students a day, and why students typically stay two to three years
• How years of property setbacks — from a tiny barn arena to losing a fully-funded site — eventually led Nicola to Wootton Park
• Why she now advises new practitioners to look beyond a traditional "stable yard" when searching for property
• What she learned about entitlement and service value after offering free sessions early on, and why she moved to a paid model with limited scholarships
• Why clear behavior policies and signed participant agreements protect both practitioners and the people they serve
• How building trust — including letting a young person leave a session if they truly want to — creates lasting engagement
• What her master's research revealed about educational trauma in neurodivergent students
• How Nicola's own experience of teenage homelessness shaped her mission to create Equine Learning's safe, inclusive space

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:00:44] Rupert introduces Nicola Hepburn of Equine Learning as one of the UK's equine-facilitated learning pioneers

[00:02:07] Nicola traces her path into the field back to a 2005 training course at the Unicorn Trust in Stow-on-the-Wold

[00:10:50] Nicola describes how Equine Learning evolved from adult day-center visits into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent young people

[00:24:43] Nicola walks through exactly how to find and win a local authority tender

[00:34:01] Nicola recounts losing a fully-funded property right after raising £50,000 to build an arena, left with 20 horses and nowhere to go

[00:47:22] Nicola shares her philosophy on asking for help: "the worst thing that people can do is say no"

[00:52:04] Rupert tells the story of "Big Al," the Texas landowner who said no for years before his land became one of their most cherished spots

[00:58:24] Nicola and Rupert compare notes on the risks of offering services for free versus charging

[01:13:47] Nicola explains why letting a young person leave a session when they want to actually builds trust

[01:19:02] Nicola opens up about becoming homeless at 17

[01:21:47] Nicola credits a Blockbuster store manager who believed in her with turning her life around and helping her buy her first horse

[01:35:07] Nicola shares her vision for wellness retreats addressing menopause and grief

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Nicola Hepburn – Founder, Equine Learning https://equinelearning.org.uk Email: [email protected]

New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co

Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com

Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home
https://longridehome.com
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New Trails Learning Systems
https://ntls.co
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Sanaa Pharayra runs the Romeo Roadshow, a Southern California-based program that brings miniature horses named Romeo and Ziggy directly into memory care facilities, senior day programs, and hospital rooms for people living with Alzheimer's and dementia.

What began as a rescue project for a single abandoned, feral miniature horse has grown into a program now drawing research interest from the University of Southern California and Cal State Channel Islands. Faculty there are studying why repeated visits from Romeo and Ziggy appear to reduce fear and increase engagement in residents, even those who don't consciously remember the horses' earlier visits.

Sanaa and Rupert dig into the neuroscience behind why this works, from oxytocin and cortisol to brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), and compare notes on what it actually takes to train a horse for genuine emotional engagement rather than quiet compliance. They also discuss Sanaa's own Bedouin and Arab-Israeli ancestry, discovered as an adult, and what it might mean for the program's future.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

✨ "I call it the awe factor. That's what I see in these people's faces — they're in awe." – Sanaa Pharayra

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How a rescued, feral miniature horse named Romeo became the foundation of a therapy program that now visits memory care facilities across Southern California
• Why repeated visits from the horses reduced residents' fear within just three visits, even when they had no memory of the horses' previous visits
• What staff report when comparing horse therapy visits to the dog therapy programs already in place at the same facilities
• How Sanaa connected with The Connected Horse program, founded by Nancy Scheer and Paula Hirtel, and their research advisor Dr. Claudia Sonder
• Why Romeo Roadshow is now partnering with USC and Cal State Channel Islands, working with Professor Ronald Verkowski, to formally study its effects
• How oxytocin, cortisol, and BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor) explain the neuroscience behind equine-assisted therapy
• Why horses must be trained for genuine emotional engagement, not just quiet compliance, to be effective therapy partners
• Why Sanaa believes people with more advanced cognitive decline may respond even more strongly to the horses once language falls away
• How Sanaa discovered her Bedouin and Arab-Israeli heritage as an adult, including her grandfather's history as a "Faras," an Arab horseman who raced Arabians
• Why Sanaa and Rupert believe the program could eventually support conflict-resolution work in the Middle East
• What Sanaa's long-term vision is for Romeo Roadshow, including plans for a documentary and a newly filed 501(c)(3) nonprofit status
• How the program is exploring intergenerational partnerships that pair university students with senior residents through the therapy visits

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:13:00] The Painted Turtle charity holiday party visit that reveals Romeo is a therapy animal
 [00:20:00] Residents who were once afraid of the horses lose their fear within three visits, despite not remembering earlier ones
 [00:58:00] Rupert cites a University of Bournemouth study showing a 51% reduction in domestic violence a year after a five-week equine intervention
 [01:01:00] Rupert describes his horse Clou spontaneously nuzzling and licking a boy believed to be in a vegetative state
 [01:17:00] Sanaa describes "the awe factor" she sees on residents' faces during visits
 [01:44:00] Sanaa learns via a message from a cousin that her grandfather was a "Faras," an Arab horseman who raced Arabians
 [02:08:00] Rupert suggests a documentary title: "Where for Art Thou?"
 [02:11:00] A nonverbal elderly man musters the words "I grew up on a farm" during a hospital room visit with the horses

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Sanaa Pharayra – Founder, Romeo Roadshow  https://romeoroadshow.com
 New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co
 Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
 Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome
 

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home
 https://longridehome.com
 https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh
 https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh
 https://youtube.com/@longridehome
 
New Trails Learning Systems
 https://ntls.co
 https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
 https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
 https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I believe that in our ancestry we were equestrians, and that's why it's connected so hard with my family." – Louis Hook

For 35 years, the Compton Cowboys mission has run a self-development program in Compton, California, that leverages horses to help kids grow into upstanding young men and women — serving roughly 30 kids a year. Founding member Louis Hook and HeartMath practitioner Kansas Carradine, who has worked alongside the organization for years, join Rupert Isaacson to talk about the mission's history and how it works today.

What started when Louis's sister Maisha Akbar moved to Compton's Richland Farms neighborhood in 1988 has grown into a four-track program covering horsemanship, equine science, farming, and self-development. Kansas brings the science side of the conversation, explaining how heart rate variability and heart coherence research from the HeartMath Institute is being used to help kids and horses regulate together.

The conversation ranges from the history of West African cavalry culture and Mansa Musa to the concept of epigenetic and intergenerational trauma, and what Louis calls "Shadow PTSD" in kids growing up in high-violence neighborhoods. It's a wide-ranging discussion about ancestry, the funding challenges facing Black equestrian nonprofits, and why reconnecting to the history of Black horsemanship matters for healing.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• How the Compton Cowboys mission began 35 years ago when founder Maisha Akbar moved to Compton's Richland Farms neighborhood
• Why Compton developed an equestrian culture at all, and how a protective land deed kept it from being lost to urbanization
• How the Compton Cowboys' "four tracks" model — horsemanship, equine science, farming, and self-development — structures a full day for kids
• Why the program shifted from Western to English riding due to funding and racial barriers within the Western equestrian world
• What HeartMath research reveals about heart rate variability (HRV) and how horses respond to human nervous system regulation
• How epigenetic and intergenerational trauma is passed down, and why reconnecting to ancestry can support healing
• How the Compton Cowboys' own research into Mansa Musa and West African cavalry culture reshaped their understanding of Black equestrian history
• What "Shadow PTSD" means for kids growing up in high-violence neighborhoods, and why the organization believes it needs formal recognition
• How the Compton Cowboys have expanded to serve LA's broader community, not just Black families
• Why field trips to ranches and farms are a powerful — and fundable — model for connecting urban kids to nature
• What it actually costs to run a nonprofit equestrian program, and how funding and celebrity support really work in practice
• How Compton Cowboys has advocated to keep equestrian centers open across LA County
• How Rupert's own experience adapting fox hunting into inclusive countryside days connects to the episode's larger theme of nature and healing

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:01:00] Rupert introduces the Compton Cowboys, with founding member Louis Hook and HeartMath practitioner Kansas Carradine [00:06:00] The Richland Farms land deed that preserved Compton's equestrian culture 
[00:32:00] The Compton Cowboys' behind-the-scenes role in Beyoncé's Super Bowl halftime show 
[00:41:00] Inside the Compton Cowboys' four-track daily program for kids 
[00:49:00] Kansas explains HeartMath's heart rate variability research and how horses respond to human regulation 
[00:55:00] Discovering Mansa Musa and West African cavalry history after watching The Woman King 
[01:19:00] Epigenetic trauma and the idea that DNA carries generations of memory 
[01:41:00] The case for equine-assisted programs to formally recognize "Shadow PTSD" in high-violence neighborhoods [02:00:00] How to support Compton Cowboys, and the real cost of running summer camp

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Louis Hook & Kansas Carradine – Compton Cowboys https://comptoncowboys.com
Compton Junior Equestrians (nonprofit) https://comptonjuniorequestrians.org
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home
https://longridehome.com
https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh
https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh
https://youtube.com/@longridehome

New Trails Learning Systems
https://ntls.co
https://facebook.com/horseboyworld
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

Russell Craig is a celebrated visual artist now based between Philadelphia, New York, and Wellington, Florida, who grew up in the foster care system from age five and spent a total of twelve years in the Pennsylvania prison system before building an art career that has taken him from a mural on the African American Museum in Philadelphia to the White House, the Democratic National Convention, and museum collections around the country.

What makes Russell's story so striking is how directly his lived experience speaks to the populations equine-assisted practitioners are trying to serve — kids in foster care, people coming out of incarceration, and anyone navigating systems that were never built with their wellbeing in mind. He found his way through art, using it inside prison as both an escape and, eventually, as a plan for life after release.

In this conversation, Russell and Rupert dig into what a horse-based program for foster kids and formerly incarcerated people would actually need to work — structure, mentorship, hands-on care, transportation, funding, and a real sense of separation from old environments — as well as the deeper parallels Russell sees between horses and his own experience of captivity and freedom.

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

✨ "When it's built on good structure, it will stand." – Russell Craig

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• Why Russell sees foster care and incarceration as a "funnel" that equine-assisted practitioners need outside mentorship to address responsibly
• How Russell first reconnected with art inside the prison system, and why it became his primary survival strategy
• Why structure and a clear long-term plan — not just talent — turned Russell's art into a real career after release
• How Russell draws parallels between leading a horse and his own experience of incarceration, and what that means for horsemanship
• Why Russell believes any foster-care equine program would need to feel like a true separation from a kid's old environment, not a day visit
• What Russell thinks foster care agencies would need to see before referring kids to an equine program
• Why transportation and funding are the two biggest barriers to access for kids who could benefit from equine-assisted programs
• How the parole system's rules can make it nearly impossible to stay out of prison, even for someone trying to build a stable life
• Why Russell believes any program working with formerly incarcerated or at-risk people needs a spiritual or nature-connection component
• Rupert and Russell's shared idea for a "campus" model that combines equine therapy with green jobs, land restoration, and forestry training
• Why Russell sought out an arts program from inside prison — and how that became his springboard after release
• Russell's closing advice to practitioners working with foster kids or people coming out of incarceration

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:03:00] Russell describes being placed in foster care at age five and ending up on the streets by twelve 
[00:09:00] Russell on reconnecting with art inside prison as a way to escape his surroundings and stay focused 
[00:21:00] Russell on training himself to look for "the awesome" even inside hard or painful situations 
[00:35:00] Rupert and Russell draw the parallel between leading a horse and Russell's own experience of incarceration 
[00:45:00] Rupert outlines NTLS's three certification programs: Horse Boy Method, Movement Method, and Takhin Equine Integration 
[01:11:00] Russell explains why kids in a foster-care equine program would need real separation from their old environment, not just a day visit 
[01:13:00] Rupert and Russell brainstorm a "campus" model combining horses with green jobs, land reclamation, and forestry training 
[01:39:00] Russell details the parole system's rules and how they can make it nearly impossible to stay out of prison 
[01:53:00] Russell describes seeking out an arts program from inside prison and turning it into his springboard after release 
[02:03:00] Russell's closing advice: keep pushing, don't do it alone, and connect with others doing the work

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Russell Craig – Artist Search: Russell Craig artist 
New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co 
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com 
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home 
https://longridehome.com 
https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh 
https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh 
https://youtube.com/@longridehome 

New Trails Learning Systems 
https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld 
https://instagram.com/horseboyworld 
https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "They come in with a cane and feeling disabled, and then they say, 'Here, take the cane, honey. I'm gonna walk this horse.' We've seen this so many times we can't even number it." – Nancy Schier Anzelmo

Description Paula Hertel and Nancy Schier Anzelmo are the co-founders of Connected Horse, a California-based program that brings equine-assisted experiences to older adults living with dementia or memory loss — alongside their care partners. Backed by research conducted with Stanford University and UC Davis, Connected Horse is one of the first programs in the country to specifically serve this population in this way. Kansas Carradine, HeartMath-certified trainer and returning EAW guest, joins to explore the science of heart coherence, entrainment, and why horses may be uniquely suited to reach people that other approaches cannot.

Connected Horse's work challenges the assumption that equine-assisted services are only for children or younger adults. Their Stanford and UC Davis pilot studies recorded statistically significant reductions in depression, anxiety, and caregiver burden — with 100% participant return rates at a six-month booster session. Participants regularly go from fearful and withdrawn to walking horses, speaking in full sentences, and feeling activated to change their lives. The program is designed to be failure-free: for the person with the diagnosis, for the care partner, and for the horses.

In this episode, Rupert, Paula, Nancy, and Kansas explore the physiology behind what happens when a person leans their heart against a horse's neck, why dementia and autism require similar practitioner responses around pacing and unconditional presence, what ritual and ceremony have to do with cortisol regulation, and how social prescribing may bring programs like Connected Horse into mainstream healthcare. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode

• Why older adults living with dementia have been largely overlooked by the equine-assisted field — and what Connected Horse is doing to change that
• How Stanford University and UC Davis pilot studies measured statistically significant reductions in depression, anxiety, and caregiver burden in just 15 hours of horse-based intervention
• Why Connected Horse works with the person living with dementia and their care partner together — and why separating them misses the point
• What actually happens during a Connected Horse workshop: herd observation, grooming, haltering, leading, and at-liberty gratitude time in the round pen
• Why people who entered unable to speak, walk confidently, or engage start doing all three by the third session
• How emotional memory remains intact even as verbal and cognitive function declines — and how horses help bring it forward
• What heart coherence and entrainment explain about why people lean their heart against a horse's neck and visibly transform
• Why Kansas Carradine connects equine-assisted ritual to shamanic ceremony — and how that connection is measurable in biophoton research and HeartMath science
• How the failure-free environment Paula and Nancy design creates self-agency for care partners who have lost their sense of control
• What the social prescribing movement is — and why Connected Horse is part of an early Kaiser Permanente pilot bringing grassroots programs into mainstream healthcare
• Why dementia and autism require the same practitioner response: slow down, reduce verbal demands, hold unconditional presence, and let the emotional memory do its work
• How Connected Horse trains other barns and facilitators internationally, and what a "prescription to come to the barn" might look like

🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode

[00:04:30] Paula describes what Connected Horse does — and why explaining it still falls short 
[00:15:07] Nancy breaks down the Stanford study design: five measures, three out of five with a P value of .001 
[00:16:33] The UC Davis booster session: 100% participant return rate six months later, even after strokes or condition changes 
[00:22:14] What happens in the round pen: how the horse almost always moves toward the person who breathes, opens, and goes still 
[00:26:44] Kansas explains how the horse's heart field, VLF emissions, and coherent broadcast create the conditions for entrainment [00:32:00] Nancy: aphasic participants begin speaking; people who arrived with canes put them down to walk the horse 
[01:00:16] Paula on the grounding meditation that opens every session — and why reducing fight-flight-freeze is the foundation of everything 
[01:06:04] Paula on self-agency: regulating your own body is power, because "that's not someone doing something to me" 
[01:12:03] Kansas links equine-assisted facilitation to shamanic ritual — and to the science of entrainment and biophotons 
[01:29:02] Nancy on "activation": how workshop participants start going to the gym, traveling, writing, and living again after diagnosis 
[01:46:43] Paula on the social prescribing movement and Connected Horse's early pilot with Kaiser Permanente

📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned

Paula Hertel & Nancy Schier Anzelmo – Co-founders, Connected Horse https://connectedhorse.org [email protected] [email protected] 

New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co 
Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com 
Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome

🌍 Follow Us

Long Ride Home 
https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome 
New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems

📊 Affiliate Disclosure

Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.