We have a really fun episode for you today—We’re talking with James Goldberg about his delightful book Tales of the Chelm First Ward, which he co-wrote with his, wife Nicole Wilkes Goldberg, and his brother, Mattathias Singh.

The book is a collection of fictional stories set in a Latter-day Saint ward in the imagined town of Chelm—a nod to Jewish folklore and the famous “village of fools.” The humor is wonderfully absurd but beneath the silliness is something powerful and profound.

In this conversation, we explore what might be called a theology of humor. James reflects on how laughter opens us. It softens the edges of our seriousness and rigidity, and draws us closer in shared connection. 

He reminded us that not everything about “church culture” needs to be critiqued or stripped away—sometimes it can be embraced with lightness and joy, as part of what brings us together and helps us live in community. 

The idea that stayed with us most was this: maybe what makes a ward great isn’t how aligned everyone is theologically or politically, or how smoothly things run, or how polished people are in their callings. Maybe it’s just about creating a group of people who are all rooting for each other—through the everyday moments, the imperfect efforts, and the callings that stretch us. It’s about showing up with love, having each other’s backs, and learning to see one another the way God does—with patience, grace, and deep affection.

We hope this episode might just help you love your ward a little more—with all its quirks and imperfections. We hope it helps you see the people around you with a little more grace, a little more humor, and a little more tenderness.

And with that, here’s our conversation with James Goldberg.

https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/tales-of-the-chelm-first-ward-introduction

Affiliate link for Chelm: https://bookshop.org/a/108982/9781961471030 

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, we’re joined by Mike Petrow, who serves as the Director of Formation, Faculty Relations, and Theological Foundations at the Center for Action and Contemplation. The CAC is a nonprofit founded by Father Richard Rohr that introduces seekers to the contemplative Christian path of transformation.

Mike is intimately involved with the CAC’s Living School, a core educational offering from the CAC that last year offered a course called Essentials of Engaged Contemplation that Tim and I participated in. Mike is one of the primary hosts in the conversations that make up much of the program, often conversing with people like Richard Rohr and our friend Brian McLaren. Frankly, we found the work that Mike and the rest of the CAC team did on this course to be truly life-changing, and engaging it has been one of the most uplifting and transformative spiritual experiences we’ve had in our lives. In addition to his work at the CAC, Mike holds degrees (including a PhD) in psychology, mythology, and religious studies.

This conversation is a sample of just how deeply insightful Mike is. He invited us to see curiosity as something “implanted in our hearts by God”—not as a threat to faith, but as an invitation to let the divine meet us in unexpected ways. He challenged the idea that “community is formed around uniformity of belief” and instead argued that real connection happens when we learn to be with each other, even in our differences  — that everyone belongs even, or perhaps especially, when they fall somehow outside the norm. And he brought so much depth to the idea of the wounded healer —“if you deeply commit to your own healing,” Mike told us, “at a certain point you realize it’s not just for you.”

In one of the most powerful moments of this conversation, Mike describes a moment of profound loss—sitting at his mother’s bedside as she passed away—and then, just hours later, holding his newborn niece for the first time. These moments of symmetry revealed a truth that is at the heart of this entire conversation: that loss, and grief, and pain carve out a space in our hearts that can eventually be filled with love, joy and connection.

We hope this conversation offers the same sense of healing, hope, and clarity that it did for us. And with that, let’s jump into this beautiful conversation with Mike Petrow.

Thanks so much for listening, and we want to send a huge thanks to Mike for coming on. For those of you who might have been wondering more about the Living School, the Essentials of Engaged Contemplation that Aubrey and I participated in, the course is not currently open for enrollment, but if you’re interested in learning more or getting updates, you can head to cac.org.

And if Faith Matters content is resonating with you and you get a chance, we’d love for you to leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We love reading reviews and they definitely help get the word about about Faith Matters.

Thanks again for listening, and as always, you can check out more at faithmatters.org.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, we’re excited to share a conversation between Zach Davis and New York Times columnist and author David French.

David French began his career as a constitutional litigator, with a special focus on religious liberty. He has since become known for his thoughtful, principled political writing, having worked previously for The National Review, The Dispatch and The Atlantic. 

In their conversation today, David emphasizes the need for Christians to move from a fear-based political culture to one centered on care and compassion for our neighbors—and that instead of seeking political control or domination, Christians should embrace equality for Americans of any or no religion. 

David also addresses the rise in misinformation and distrust in institutions, highlighting the importance of truth-seeking and constructive political engagement. He concludes with a prayer that Christians will reject the politics of fear and help renew the world by living a counter-culture of love. 

Wherever you find yourself across the political spectrum, we hope this conversation offers an empowering way forward—one grounded compassion. And with that, let’s jump into our conversation with David French.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, we’re welcoming back our good friend Jeff Strong.

Last year, Jeff and his team sent out a survey to the Faith Matters audience as part of a larger research project on faith and church participation. Over 1,600 of you responded, and the results were fascinating! We’re excited to share them with you today. What emerged was a picture of a significant and often unheard cross-section of the Church—a community of people who are deeply devoted but also wrestling, holding both conviction and complexity, faith and struggle, all at once.

In this conversation, Jeff walks us through some of the most powerful insights from the survey, with a special focus on culture and aspects of our faith experience that are shaping our sense of belonging, meaning, and connection. He explores what people love most about being part of this tradition, where they encounter real challenges.

One of the clearest themes in the survey is the tension between tradition and change—a familiar story in faith traditions across the world. Jeff explores what it means to hold that complexity well, in our families, community, and our own hearts. He addresses the power of finding others who are walking a similar path, and why recognizing we’re not alone in this wrestle can be so meaningful.

I want to mention that there are a few visuals in this conversation that Jeff does a great job describing but you can see the slides he talks about in the YouTube version of this episode. To everyone who participated in the survey, thank you. It has been such a gift to see that none of us is alone here. We’re so grateful to be in it with you—asking hard questions, holding onto what we love, and finding our way forward together. 

And with that, here’s our conversation with Jeff Strong.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

For today’s episode, we’re releasing a fascinating conversation that Aubrey had with Rich Hanks about the life and legacy of his father, Marion D. Hanks. For those who know his name, you’ll know exactly why this conversation matters so much to us—Marion D. Hanks embodied so many of the values we hold dear. He was a leader of immense integrity, a champion for those on the margins, and a disciple of Christ in the truest sense. Even today, the ripples of his influence continue to shape the Church and the lives of so many.

President David O. McKay once gave him a blessing with a simple but powerful charge: “Let your voice be heard, even if it is in opposition to the stated norms.” And he did. For forty years, he consistently pushed for change—advocating for humanitarian work long before it became a priority, fighting against the priesthood and temple ban, and insisting that sustaining leaders meant honest engagement, not silent agreement.

Rich shared incredible stories about his father—the ways he stood up to cultural and institutional pressures, his deep reverence for the individual, and his unwavering belief that true discipleship is rooted in love, not conformity. He also spoke movingly about his father’s final years, as dementia slowly took hold, and the lessons of grace and devotion that emerged even in that difficult season. More than anything, we were struck by how Marion D. Hanks’ entire life was centered on lifting, healing, and serving—just as Christ did.

We are so grateful to Rich for sharing these stories. We think this conversation will be inspiring to anyone who has ever wrestled with how to live their faith with integrity, courage, and compassion. And with that, we’ll jump right into our conversation with Rich Hanks.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

We have been waiting a long time for this episode with our friend Thomas McConkie. As many of you know, Thomas is an incredibly skilled meditation teacher and guide on the path of spiritual awakening. Faith Matters produced his very popular online course Transformations of Faith and also published his incredible book At-One-Ment, which has deeply impacted so many readers. 

For the last several years, Thomas has been doing graduate work at Harvard Divinity School. All the while, we have been exploring with Thomas the  possibility of creating a podcast to help us all hit the pause button in our busy daily lives and give time to a rich meditation and prayer practice. As Thomas is coming to the end of his program at Harvard, the time seemed right to launch this series. And so we are excited to share with you today the first episode of this new podcast, named One Heart, One Mind. 

Thomas is a teacher and researcher who is fascinated by consciousness, growth and  transformation. He is especially interested in Christian contemplation and what it means to re-embody Christ’s teachings in new and unique ways for these challenging times–ways that will lead to deeper connection to God and to those around us. In One Heart One Mind, we will join Thomas in searching Christianity and the world’s Wisdom traditions for gems and insights into awakening, transformation, and the soul’s journey Home. The episodes are designed to be relatively brief, 15 to 30 minutes or so, and will generally include a teaching followed by a guided meditation.

So, if you’ve been intending to cultivate a more regular spiritual practice of meditation and prayer, this might be the perfect place to start. You can subscribe to One Heart, One Mind on whatever podcast platform you use. We think you’re going to love this journey with Thomas McConkie.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, Tim and I are sharing a fascinating conversation with therapist and researcher Janeen Martin about the complex and deeply personal ways that religion and mental health intersect.

Janeen has spent years working with clients navigating the full spectrum of religious experience—some who find their faith to be a source of deep resilience and healing, and others for whom it has been a source of pain and struggle. That contrast led her to ask some big questions: What makes religion a protective factor for some and a source of distress for others? How do individual personality, family dynamics, and church culture shape the way we engage with faith? And most importantly, how can we cultivate a relationship with God and our faith that supports our mental and emotional well-being?

One of the most interesting ideas we explored was the concept of attachment styles—how the way we relate to God often mirrors the way we’ve experienced relationships with authority figures in our lives. Janeen also introduced us to three different religious orientations—extrinsic, intrinsic, and quest—and how our approach to faith can evolve over time. We talked about how religious communities can create spaces for both conviction and curiosity, how parents can help their kids develop a healthy and secure faith, and how we can each pay attention to the signs that our relationship with God is either building us up or weighing us down.

This conversation was rich with insight and practical tools for anyone wanting to engage with their faith in a way that is both deeply meaningful and emotionally healthy. We hope you find it as valuable as we did. And with that, we’ll jump right into our conversation with Janeen Martin.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, we are thrilled to welcome back Terryl Givens—one of our all-time favorite guests and collaborators and someone we always have a running list of topics for. This time, we’re finally diving deep into the topic of agency and free will: it’s something that has come up in many of our past conversations but never had its own dedicated discussion. 

Terryl’s new book, Agency, is part of the Maxwell Institute’s Doctrine & Covenants theological series, and it explores some of the most profound and challenging questions about what it truly means to have agency. For centuries, theologians and philosophers have debated whether free will truly exists or if what we call agency is merely an illusion— our choices predetermined by the unfolding of the universe, or so shaped by our biology and past that we don't have real choice. Terryl’s work in this book finds that Mormonism has some compelling and unique insights on that central question, and explores some others: what role does community and authority play in expanding—or limiting—our agency? And how do we navigate the tension between obedience and authentic personal choice?

In this conversation, we explore the dangers of turning scripture or prophets into idols, how our perception of God can sometimes become so skewed that it’s actually a “false God,” and why Terryl doesn’t believe that we’ll ever be judged based on our beliefs alone. We also get into some fascinating intersections between agency, neuropsychology, philosophy, and even Darwinian evolution.

This discussion left us with so much to think about, and we hope it does the same for you. So with that, let’s dive in!

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, we’re thrilled to talk with Carl Youngblood— longtime technologist, software engineer, and president of the Mormon Transhumanist Association.

Artificial Intelligence is no longer a distant, futuristic idea—it’s already shaping the way we learn, work, and even practice our faith. And just this past week, AI made big headlines again in the tech world with the release of vastly improved models and increasing belief among technology leaders that artificial general intelligence (AGI) is just around the corner. Whether or not that's the case, the exponential progress of AI is undeniable, and it’s sparking some of the biggest questions of our time. If God can speak through the written word, could God speak through AI? How do we discern when it's a tool for growth versus a shortcut that stunts it? And if AI frees us from certain types of work, could it deepen our relationships and spirituality—or will it leave us searching for new sources of meaning? It’s worth noting that many of the people most deeply concerned about AI’s effects on humanity and society are those who were involved in creating it. 

In this episode, we’ll talk about some of those concerns, but we’ll mostly explore ways we can use it constructively. 

Carl brings a sharp and thought-provoking perspective to these questions. He challenges us to approach AI with both curiosity and caution—seeing how it can deepen connection or drive isolation, spark creativity or dull our own discernment. Rather than dismissing it as just a tool or blindly embracing it, Carl pushes us to wrestle with its real impact on our thinking, relationships, and spiritual growth.

This is a conversation full of nuance, curiosity, and a lot of open-ended questions, and we hope it sparks new reflections for you. We’ll have links in the show notes to tools we mention throughout the episode, so be sure to check those out. And with that, here’s our conversation with Carl Youngblood.

Chat GPT

Google NotebookLM

Readwise

Church Newsroom: Guiding Principles for Use of AI

Elder Bednar on AI

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This week, Zach Davis is joined by New York Times columnist and author Ross Douthat to talk about his new book, Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.

Ross has spent his career bridging worlds—explaining faith and conservatism to a largely secular audience while also translating secular ideas back to religious readers. In this conversation, he makes a compelling case for why belief isn’t just a leap into the unknown, but a rational and maybe even necessary response to the world as we actually experience it.

Zach and Ross also explore some of the major barriers that keep modern, intellectually serious people from embracing faith—things like the Copernican and Darwinian revolutions, which many see as having displaced humanity from the center of the universe. But Ross challenges these assumptions, showing how science, rather than disproving faith, could actually deepen the mystery of our existence in a way that makes belief more compelling than ever. And he points out something undeniable–– that even as religious affiliation in the West declines, people across all backgrounds continue to report profound, life-altering encounters with the divine. Ross suggests that these experiences, far from being irrational, may be one of the strongest indicators that something real is at work in the universe.

This conversation was a fascinating mix of theology, philosophy, and cultural analysis, and we think Ross offers an important and thought-provoking perspective—one that invites both skeptics and believers to take faith seriously.

And with that, let’s jump into our conversation with Ross Douthat.

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts.