How the enemy-making machine has wormed its way into our churches—and how to dismantle it with spiritual discernment, humility, and a commitment to personal and communal reformation. Mike Erre and Tim Stafford are joined by theologian and author David Fitch to explore themes from his book “The Church of Us vs. Them: Freedom from a Faith That Feeds on Making Enemies.” Fitch presents a powerful critique of how evangelical churches have aligned with power, created ideological purity tests, and become known more for their enemies than for their love.

Through wit, insight, and a bit of holy mischief, Fitch confronts how distinctives like inerrancy, eschatology, and gender roles evolve into antagonistic banners that suppress healthy dialogue. Instead, he advocates for a model of shared discernment, rooted in embodied theology, intentional community, and enemy-love in the spirit of Jesus. They deep-dive into complex, often polarized church conversations—particularly surrounding sexuality and biblical authority—and model what it looks like to pursue truth without resorting to vilification.

Key Takeaways: • Banner vs. Belief – How important theological distinctives often turn into ideological weapons that prevent true discourse. • Understanding the Enemy-Making Machine – A framework for how churches build antagonistic identities by aligning against others, rather than toward Jesus. • Walking with Enemies – What it means to love those you disagree with, and why division can be avoided through listening and mutual submission. • Submission vs. Control – The importance of faithful theological leadership shaped in real communities of accountability, not coercive church systems. • Discerning in a Post-Christendom Culture – Why conflict is an opportunity to grow toward Christ's mission instead of drawing antagonistic battle lines.

Guest Highlight: David Fitch – A pastor, theologian, and author committed to rethinking ecclesiology and culture through the Anabaptist tradition. He brings depth, humor, and prophetic edge as he explores how the church can rediscover its mission outside systems of power and division.

Resources Mentioned: • David Fitch – The Church of Us vs. Them – Amazon Link • Missio Alliance Author Page – David Fitch on Missio • Andrew Marin – Us Versus Us • Tim Gombis – Faith Improvised podcast • Anthony Giddens – The Transformation of Intimacy • Bonhoeffer & the Confessing Church (historical reference)

Join the conversation and share your own reflections on the banners you've carried—and how discernment might offer a better way forward. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and follow us on social media to stay connected!

As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Learn more about the Voxology Podcast

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Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre

Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy



As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV.

Our Merch Store! ETSY

Learn more about the Voxology Podcast

Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify

Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon

The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio

Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook

Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre

Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy