Fire Investigation INFOCUS podcast

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens are joined by Fire Investigators Bill Strohm and Oliver Gillespie to explain how their fire investigation unit operates and why their structure leads to strong case outcomes. They break down the roles of shift investigators, who handle origin and cause, evidence collection, and witness interviews at active scenes, and day-shift investigators, who manage follow-ups, warrants, law enforcement coordination, and case preparation for prosecution. The team discusses how having two investigators on scene helps reduce bias and strengthen findings, the importance of building relationships with partner agencies, and how persistence and collaboration support long-term arson investigations. The episode closes with practical advice for solo investigators on capturing perishable information, staying disciplined with the scientific method, and communicating technical concepts clearly in court.

Upcoming Trainings & Dates:

• New Mexico IAAI Annual Training Conference — February 23–27, 2026 (Albuquerque, NM)
• California Conference of Arson Investigators Training Seminar — February 23–26, 2026 (CA)
• Fire Investigation 1A (Miramar College) — March 9–13, 2026 (San Diego, CA)
• Georgia Fire Investigators Association Spring Conference — March 16–19, 2026 (Marietta, GA)
• Alabama Spring Training (Free) — April 7, 2026 (Decatur, AL)
• IAAI International Training Conference (ITC) — April 26–30, 2026 (St. Louis, MO)

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with returning guest Attorney Lauren Guber for a real-world conversation on how fire investigations hold up when the stakes are high—especially in court. The episode kicks off with a sharp comparison between the U.S. approach to fire investigation standards and the UK’s “Code of Practice” concept, which reads more like “you shall” than “you should.” From there, Lauren breaks down what attorneys actually lean on when challenging an expert: your credentials, your investigation, and what you didn’t do—and why being “qualified” under NFPA 1033 isn’t the same thing as being “certified,” even though juries may treat it that way. The crew also digs into why continuing education matters (even more than years on the job), how peer review can sharpen investigators fast, and why programs like the Science Advisory Workgroup (“SAW group”) are a game-changer for improving report quality and courtroom readiness.

You’ll also hear highlights from a SAW group showcase in Oregon—where investigators presented cases, the audience got reports via QR code to follow along, and the panel asked the kind of questions that feel a lot like trial pressure (but with a learning-first vibe). The conversation closes with Lauren’s practical courtroom advice: don’t downplay your experience, tell your story clearly (especially for juries), and for the love of the transcript—slow down so the court reporter can keep up. Plus, the episode drops quick industry updates (“WTF We Train Frequently”), sponsor chatter, and ends on a nerdy teaser: what’s the difference between a chromatograph and a chromatogram—and why fire investigators should actually know.

• Kansas Annual Conference (WTF We Train Frequently) — February 3–5, 2026 (Wichita, Kansas)
• IAAI Evidence Collection Technician (ECT) — Local/Orange County — February 20, 2026 (Irvine, California; Orange County Fire Authority HQ)
• California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI) Annual Training — February 23–26, 2026 (California)
• New Mexico Annual Training Conference — February 23–27, 2026 (Albuquerque, New Mexico)
• Georgia Fire Investigators Association Spring Conference — March 16–19, 2026 (Cobb, Georgia)

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If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. 

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In this milestone 50th episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens dive into Chapter 5: Basic Fire Science from the 2024 edition of NFPA 921. This episode breaks down foundational fire science concepts that investigators are frequently challenged on in court—covering the definition of fire, energy vs. power, heat flux, modes of heat transfer, minimum ignition energy (MIE), flammable limits, and suppression effects.

Scott and Chasity explain how misunderstandings of fire dynamics, radiant heat, convection, and material properties can lead to incorrect origin-and-cause conclusions—and how defense attorneys exploit these gaps. Using real-world examples, courtroom-style questions, and investigator-friendly analogies, they emphasize treating fire as a process, not just a pattern.

The episode also celebrates 50 episodes, discusses advanced education at Eastern Kentucky University and Oklahoma State University, and answers listener questions on cigarette ignition research. Whether you’re a seasoned investigator, student, or expert witness, this episode reinforces why mastering basic fire science is essential for credible, defensible investigations.

IAAI Annual Conference (Wichita, Kansas) — February 3–5

New Mexico Annual Training Conference — February 23–27

IAAI Evidence Collection Technician (ECT) Class / Practicum (hosted at Orange County Fire Authority – Orange County, CA) — Dates not stated in the episode

CCAI (California Conference of Arson Investigators) — February 23–26

Fire Investigation 1A (Miramar College – San Diego, CA) — March 9–13

Georgia Fire Investigators Association Spring Conference (Cobb / Marietta, Georgia) — March 16–19

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Season 3 kicks off with a timely and critical conversation on site safety assessments and why they are more than just a procedural checkbox—they’re a fundamental part of the fire investigation process. Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens open the new year by reflecting on recent cases, near-misses, and real-world examples that highlight how quickly an investigation can become dangerous when scene hazards aren’t properly assessed, mitigated, and documented. From energized electrical systems in fire-damaged structures to compromised floors, structural instability, soot exposure, and unauthorized occupants, this episode underscores that investigators must actively verify scene safety rather than rely on assumptions or third-party assurances.

The discussion dives into what governing documents actually require, breaking down how NFPA 921, NFPA 1033, and NFPA 1321 address site safety assessments and why the word “shall” matters—especially in court. Scott and Chasity explain how failing to document a safety assessment in your report becomes low-hanging fruit for attorneys, even when the assessment was performed. They also explore the differences between public and private scene control, how safety officers and incident command influence access, and why investigators must continually reassess hazards as conditions change. The episode closes with training opportunities related to investigator safety, a practical explanation of what a white paper is (and how it differs from a technical report), and a challenge for listeners to define SOPs—and distinguish them from SOGs—before the next episode.

Trainings & Conferences Mentioned

Fire Investigation Safety Officer Training

• Mesa, Arizona — February 9–10, 2026
• New Hampton, New York — February 11–12, 2026
• (Future offerings also mentioned in Illinois, April–May 2026; exact dates TBD)

Kansas IAAI Annual Conference

• Wichita — February 3–5, 2026

New Mexico IAAI Annual Training Conference

• Albuquerque — February 23–27, 2026

California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI) Training

• California — February 23–26, 2026
  • Scott and Chasity will be teaching at this conference

Georgia Fire Investigators Association – Spring Conference

• Marietta — March 16–19, 2026
  • (Held at Cobb County location)

Scientific Advisory Work Group (SAW Group) – Mock Report Challenge

• Oregon — January 2026
  • Exact dates not specified during the episode

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In this Christmas Eve Embercast, Chasity and Scott slow things down with a short, informal episode focused on listener feedback, community connection, and the continued growth of the fire investigation profession. Rather than a full-length case discussion, this Ember-style episode highlights messages from investigators around the world—including Australia—and explores meaningful conversations sparked by listener questions, critiques, and ideas. Topics include a listener-requested concept for a wildfire investigation roundtable series, advice for investigators preparing for the IAAI CFI certification exam, and a discussion on the difference between studying for a test and conducting real-world research. The episode also addresses a technical terminology correction—“arc” versus “arc site”—and why precision in language matters in both investigations and the courtroom. Chasity and Scott reflect on the importance of collaboration between public and private fire investigators, introduce a new 2025 segment titled “Here’s the Scenario—Figure It Out,” and discuss why NFPA 921 should be viewed as a framework rather than a standalone research document. The Embercast closes with shoutouts to fellow fire investigation podcasts helping move the industry forward and a holiday message to listeners. Full episodes return January 7. 🎄🔥

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This episode is basically a training recap and a reality check for anyone trying to level up in origin and cause—especially in motor vehicle fires and evidence handling. Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens kick things off by talking about hosting multiple IAAI classes in Orange County, including the newer Evidence Collection course and the Evidence Collection Technician (ECT) practicum, with real talk about what surprised them, what they wish the class showed more clearly, and why “verbalizing the process” is the make-or-break skill on skills-based testing.

Then they sit down with Chris Ellis (motor vehicle fire investigation instructor) to talk about how he got into the fire service, how he became an investigator, and why vehicle fires intimidate even seasoned investigators: fast consumption, heavy damage, and patterns that don’t behave like a structure fire. Chris breaks down what the 3-day Motor Vehicle Fire Investigation class covers, why the curriculum was recently rewritten, and how the course is built to serve both the 6-month investigator and the 20-year veteran—including the value of having manufacturer reps (Volvo, Subaru, Honda, Mercedes, etc.) in the room to strengthen real-world knowledge and future case networking.

The episode also gets practical: how instructors build diverse investigation groups (not “buddy groups”), why public/private collaboration matters, and how inviting the public agency to private vehicle exams can unlock crucial scene context you can’t get later at a yard. You’ll also hear student perspectives from Elliot and Anabelle Brown (children of fire investigator Kevin Brown) on what clicked for them—especially the confidence boost from learning vehicle-specific dynamics and applying them in the final scenario.

Finally, you get a fun courtroom-minded segment on donut patterns (NFPA 921 reference included), why terminology can wreck your testimony if you’re unprepared, and a teaser “word of the week” for next time: white paper.

Trainings and dates (from the WTF segment)

• Kansas IAAI Annual Conference — February 3–5, 2026 — Wichita, Kansas
• New Mexico IAAI Annual Training Conference — February 23–27, 2026 — Albuquerque, New Mexico
• California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI) — February 23–26, 2026 — San Luis Obispo, California (discounted rate if registered by February 2)
• IAAI International Training Conference (ITC) — April 26–30, 2026 — St. Louis, Missouri

National Fire Academy (NFA) application windows mentioned:

• Dec 15, 2025 – Jan 15, 2026 (for on-campus classes occurring in April–June 2026)
• Mar 15, 2026 – Apr 15, 2026 (for on-campus classes occurring in July–Sept 2026)

Thank you for listening! 

If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. 

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens kick off an exciting new series diving deep into NFPA 921—starting with one of the most critical chapters in the entire guide: Chapter 4, Basic Methodology. This episode blends expert-level fire investigation insight with the podcast’s signature humor, storytelling, and real-world case experience. Scott and Chasity introduce their brand-new segment, “Investigation Interrogation,” where they challenge each other—and the audience—with key questions every fire investigator should know before stepping into a courtroom or writing a report.

Listeners will learn how NFPA 921 now officially classifies fire investigation as a forensic science discipline, why Chapter 4 underpins everything from origin determination to negative corpus debates, and how the scientific method, inductive reasoning, deductive reasoning, bias reduction, and certainty levels shape reliable fire investigation results. They also unpack the three NFPA-recognized types of report reviews—administrative, technical, and peer review—and explain why a proper technical review is one of the strongest safeguards against confirmation bias and courtroom challenges.

The hosts share listener fan-mail wins, discuss real-world examples involving candles, combustibles, appliances, and the limits of testing hypotheses, and even touch on holiday fire safety—from Christmas trees to oven light bulbs. As always, the episode is packed with practical, courtroom-ready insights, investigator mindset training, and memorable teaching moments… all wrapped in humor, banter, and a blues-style “Water Your Tree” holiday PSA.

Whether you're a seasoned investigator, a trainee, or someone preparing for expert testimony, this episode delivers serious value and relatable, real-world fire investigation education—NFPA 921 made understandable, memorable, and actually fun.

🔥 Upcoming Training Opportunities Mentioned in This Episode

📅 December 15, 2025 – LLRMI Webinar
Title: Conducting Comprehensive Fire Investigations While Implementing NFPA 1321
Instructor: Steve Riggs
Cost: $150 (entire department can attend)

📅 December 16, 2025 – Cozen O’Connor Webinar
Title: AI and Insurance Law: Legal Challenges, Compliance, and Industry Transformation
Time: 11:30 AM – 12:30 PM EST
Cost: FREE

📅 January 20–23, 2026 – Oregon IAAI 40th Annual Career Development School
Location: Rogue Valley, Oregon
Topics Include:

• Advanced Fire & Arson Investigation
• Wildland Fire Investigation Overview
• Science Advisory Workgroup (SAW Group) workshop
• Crime lab & evidence collection
• Resiliency Training

Thank you for listening! 

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On this episode, Scott and Chasity go deep into a real commercial structure fire that went all the way to jury trial—and nearly got labeled as “negative corpus” by the defense.

They walk through the fire from first alarm to conviction: a midnight manual pull station, sprinklers flowing on stacked cardboard, a lone security guard, multiple small fires at knee height, and no obvious ignition source in the debris. Scott breaks down, step-by-step, how he eliminated every plausible cause, built a scientific timeline using fire dynamics and experimental burns, and defended his incendiary determination in court.

Along the way they unpack:

• The difference between negative corpus and proper process of elimination
• How NFPA 921 evolved from 2008 through 2024 on this issue
• Why documenting what you eliminated and how may be more important than your final cause
• Using research like the Ignition Handbook and Kirk’s Fire Investigation to support your findings
• Why separating origin & cause from interviews protects your objectivity
• How attorneys will attack your work—and how to stay calm and defensible on the stand

They also touch on AI and NFPA’s new usage policy, talk respiratory protection with CleanSpace PAPR and ITL, share upcoming training opportunities, and introduce this episode’s vocab word: “Forensic”—timed perfectly with NFPA 921 (2024) formally calling fire investigation a forensic science discipline for the first time.

Stick around to the end for a tease of their upcoming NFPA 921 chapter-by-chapter game-show series, and don’t forget to smash that five-star rating—it’s free-99 and helps the podcast reach more investigators.

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If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. 

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In this episode, Chasity and Scott head to Florida to sit down with newly elected Florida Chapter President Joe Pietrafesa and newly elected Vice President Stephen Dollar. Recorded on Disney property during the state conference, this conversation dives into the real-world challenges fire investigators are facing today—from AI-altered photographs and manipulated metadata to the increasing importance of respiratory protection and long-term health monitoring. Joe opens up about how a routine life scan caught his kidney cancer early, underscoring why PPE and investigator health studies matter more than ever. Steven shares how AI training, modern learning tools, and better accessibility to education are shaping the chapter’s future as they aim to expand quarterly training opportunities and leverage new technologies for investigator development.

The group also talks about the Florida Chapter’s impressive scholarship opportunities, including multiple full-ride awards, and why new investigators should join their state associations to build community and support. Scott and Chasity spar a little on the difference between an interview and an interrogation, the nuances between public and private roles, and what that means for documentation. They also tease next episode’s key term: metadata—and how it can help or hurt an investigation. As always, the episode includes a WTF: We Trained Frequently segment, a sponsor spotlight on CleanSpace PAPRs with ITL, and some fun banter about Florida hospitality, Disney buses, and why investigators should take advantage of conferences that double as family-friendly destinations.

• Evidence Collection (New Class, Not ECT Practicum)
  Monday, December 8, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• Motor Vehicle Fire Investigation (3-Day, IAAI Endorsement Eligible)
  December 9–11, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• NFPA 1321: Conducting Comprehensive Fire Investigations
  Instructor: Steve Riggs, Legal & Liability Risk Management Institute (LLRMI)
  December 15, 2025 – Online
• ECT (Evidence Collection Technician) Practicum
  Sold Out — but can be taken at another location after completing the class above

Thank you for listening! 

If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. 

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In this episode, spooky season banter quickly gives way to a masterclass on interviewing for fire investigation: open-ended vs. leading questions, letting witnesses talk without interruption, taking notes without breaking rapport, and using scene walk-throughs to correct memory gaps and build timelines. We unpack subrogation in plain English, why early investigator deployment is value-add, and how to avoid bias from client synopses. Real cases include a mid-slope wildland start clarified by witness video, an LA industrial strip with two separate fires hours apart, and a garage Li-ion incident with practical safety takeaways. Tools mentioned include PLAUD for transcription and LLMs for formatting—not for conclusions. We close with “Use It in a Sentence” on ambient, a roundup of WTF Trainings, and a two-fer homework: interview vs. interrogation—what’s the difference?

Resources mentioned (non-sponsored)

• PLAUD (Plaud Note) – audio capture/transcription used to create interview transcripts.
• LLMs (e.g., Gemini/ChatGPT/Claude) – used only to format summaries from transcripts.

WTF Trainings (as mentioned on the show)

• Alabama ATC 2025 — Oct 27–29, Orange Beach, AL
• Florida IAAI Chapter (Lake Buena Vista) — Nov 3–6 
• Idaho Chapter Annual Conference — Nov 4–6, Twin Falls, ID
• Hispano Americano ATC 2025 — Nov 11–14, Santa Martha, Colombia
• Ohio IAAI Investigation Seminar 2025 — Nov 12–13, OH

Thank you for listening! 

If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. 

Follow us on social media!
Instagram: @infocusfire_podcast
LinkedIn: INFOCUS podcast
Facebook: INFOCUS podcast
TikTok: @infocus_podcast