Fire Investigation INFOCUS podcast

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens recap a high-energy week teaching “AI for Fire Investigators” with the Illinois Chapter of the International Association of Arson Investigators in Peoria—what they changed from earlier classes, why transparent prompting and hands-on tools boosted engagement, and how they’ll evolve live demos next time. They unpack a standout burn-cell scenario where a clean-burn sat feet away from the true area of origin, using it to highlight how depth of char and calcination indicate relative heat exposure—not burn time—and why you must articulate origin before cause to survive depositions. Listener mail digs into IAAI Fundamentals vs. the National Fire Academy (NFA) two-week course, plus a candid look at public–private teamwork done right in Illinois. You’ll also hear quick hits on PPE (CleanSpace PAPR), a fall training roundup, and a teaser for the next Ember Cast on Project Fire Buddies. If you’re building your skills—NFPA 921 patterns, ventilation effects, report writing, and AI workflows—this one’s packed with practical takeaways without spoiling the stories.

Illinois Chapter IAAI: https://il-iaai.com

• CCAI Annual (CA): Oct 6–9;  arson.org
• West Virginia IAAI: Oct 13–14
• Arkansas IAAI: Oct 14–16
• Alabama IAAI (Orange Beach): Oct 27–29
• Florida IAAI ATC: Nov 3–6 (Scott & Chasity teaching AI)

ITL - CleanSpace Distributor- Tim Costa; [email protected]

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Welcome back to Fire Investigation in Focus! In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens dive deep into the world of fire patterns, fire effects, and origin determination, bringing both practical field experience and NFPA 921 insights straight to your headphones.

We kick things off by introducing Ember Casts—shorter, 10–20 minute mini-episodes designed to drop in between full shows, offering a “little ember of knowledge, big flames of understanding.” These quick hits will cover focused topics, case takeaways, and emerging tools, giving fire investigators the edge to stay sharp between major episodes.

From there, Scott and Chasity break down the different types of fire patterns you’ll encounter in the field: hot gas layer effects, plume-generated patterns, ventilation-driven patterns, suppression artifacts, and even undetermined or misleading fire patterns. Through real-world case studies—including residential and fatal fires—they explain how to distinguish between cause and effect, avoid common misinterpretations, and build reports that stand up to scrutiny in deposition or trial.

Listeners will hear about the importance of report writing language (first vs. third person), how forensic science terminology is evolving in NFPA 921 (2024 edition), and why tools like heat and flame vector analysis are crucial for sequencing and communicating your findings clearly. Scott and Chasity also share stories from training burns, suppression pattern recognition, and investigative “aha moments” that highlight the skillset fire investigators acquire over time.

The episode also touches on investigator mindset, reminding professionals to show grace when explaining findings to attorneys, homeowners, or jurors who don’t see fire scenes every day. Plus, there’s a look ahead at upcoming fire investigation trainings and conferences, including Illinois, Nebraska, North Dakota, Nevada, and CCAI events, as well as a Spanish-language FIG Global webinar.

Whether you’re a new fire investigator hungry for knowledge or a seasoned professional looking for a refresher on NFPA 921 fire patterns, origin determination, and scientific method application, this episode is packed with practical insights, case examples, and professional takeaways to strengthen your investigative toolbox.

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Welcome to the very first EmberCast, a new short-form addition to the Fire Investigation INFOCUS Podcast. These mini-episodes are designed to spark curiosity and deliver timely insights in between our full episodes. In this kickoff EmberCast, Chasity and Scott are joined by Jesse Sprague, founder of Echo Spectra, to talk about an innovative new tool for wildfire investigation. Jesse shares how his background in geology, computer science, and mapping led him to develop a free mobile app that allows investigators to document wildfire origin and cause scenes with precision. Built to align with the PMS 412 guidelines, the app enables users to capture directional indicators, tie them directly to photos and metadata, and export results into formats like Google Earth—complete with styled arrows, orientation, and photo logs.

Throughout the conversation, Jesse explains the app’s capabilities, from tracking advancing, lateral, and backing indicators, to overlaying wind vectors, lightning strike data, and land ownership information. He also shares upcoming features like polygons, boundary mapping, and turkey tracks to enhance scene documentation. Scott and Chasity highlight the value this tool brings to investigators at all levels—whether new to the field or seasoned experts—by consolidating critical data into one intuitive platform. With Echo Spectra’s blend of technology and fire science, investigators now have a powerful, accessible way to streamline their work and elevate their reporting.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone working in fire investigation, wildland fire response, or legal teams supporting fire cases. And the best part? The Echo Spectra app is completely free to download, making it an incredible resource for the community.

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Episode 17 – Fire Investigation in Focus Podcast
In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens return to the studio to dive into some of the most important updates shaping the fire investigation field. From the realities of starting a new business in the industry to the growing role of education and advanced certifications, Scott and Chasity share real experiences and advice that every investigator—new or seasoned—can learn from. They highlight exciting developments such as the launch of FIG Global’s Forensic Science Center in Mexico, upcoming changes to NFPA 921 and NFPA 1033 (2027 editions), and what those revisions mean for investigators moving forward—especially regarding wildland fire investigations, digital evidence, and AI in reporting. You’ll also hear insights on practical training opportunities, upcoming conferences, and why passion and process are key to credibility in the courtroom.

Whether you’re building your career, brushing up on standards, or just love geeking out on fire dynamics, this episode will keep you informed, inspired, and connected to the future of fire investigation.

Upcoming Fire Investigation Trainings & Conferences:

• Nebraska Annual Fire & Arson Conference
  📍 Nebraska | 🗓️ September 16–18, 2025
• North Dakota Chapter Training Conference
  📍 North Dakota | 🗓️ September 24–26, 2025
• California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI) Training Conference
  📍 San Luis Obispo, CA | 🗓️ October 6–9, 2025
• Nevada Chapter – Building Codes & Fire Investigation
  📍 Reno Fire Station 11 | 🗓️ September 18, 2025 | ⏰ 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM
  Instructor: Keith Eth | Lunch provided
• FIG Global (Spanish-language webinar)
  🗓️ September 10, 2025 | ⏰ 1200 hrs CDMX
  Topic: Reconstructing the Truth – Impact of Fire Forensic Labs

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Welcome back! In this episode our hosts return to recording live episodes together! Chasity kicks things off with exciting news about launching her own fire investigation company and shares stories from her incredibly busy first week, including four fires and some impressive networking at joint examinations. She takes us through fascinating cases, from a kitchen fire caused by cloth items accidentally left in a broiler to a massive carport fire involving 20 vehicles that initially had witnesses convinced arson was involved - until solid forensic work proved otherwise.

Scott shares his own intriguing cases, including a potential spontaneous heating incident from improperly disposed refinishing materials, and discusses the importance of witness interviews after sharing a gripping story about an apartment fire with suspicious Ring camera footage. The hosts dive into the challenges of single-resource investigation work and emphasize the critical balance between forensic evidence and witness statements in determining fire origin.

The episode features their signature movie quote game (with mixed results on Chasity's movie knowledge!), valuable insights about approaching experts at conferences, and Scott's mind-blowing demonstration of ChatGPT's new Agent Mode for research tasks. They also highlight upcoming training opportunities across multiple states and remind listeners about their upcoming appearance at the Illinois chapter meeting where they'll be teaching classes and recording a live podcast segment.

Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain their trademark blend of technical expertise, practical advice, and genuine enthusiasm for fire investigation, making complex forensic concepts accessible while sharing real-world experiences that showcase both the science and art of their profession. Whether you're a seasoned investigator or just curious about fire investigation, this episode delivers valuable insights wrapped in engaging storytelling.

Key Topics Covered:

• Starting a fire investigation business
• Kitchen fire safety and broiler storage mistakes
• Large-scale carport fire investigation techniques
• Spontaneous heating from refinishing materials
• Witness interview strategies and timing
• Conference networking and expert consultation
• AI tools for research and documentation
• Upcoming training opportunities nationwide
• Fire pattern analysis and undetermined classifications

Upcoming Training Events:

• North Dakota Annual Training Conference (Sept 24-26)
• Nebraska Conference in Norfolk (Sept 16)
• California CCAI Conference in San Luis Obispo (Oct 6-9)
• Arkansas Fire Prevention Conference (Oct 14-16)
• Alabama Conference in Orange Beach (Oct 27-29)
• Illinois Chapter Meeting in Peoria (Sept 15-17) - featuring the hosts!

Note: The hosts will be teaching AI classes and conducting a live podcast recording at the Illinois conference - don't miss the chance to meet them in person!

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Welcome to another exciting live episode from the IAAI-ITC 2025 conference in Atlantic City! Hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens bring you their final live recording from the conference, featuring an incredible interview with renowned fire fatality expert Elayne Pope. 

If you've ever wondered what happens to the human body during a fire, this episode is essential listening. Elayne Pope, one of the foremost experts in fire fatalities, shares her fascinating journey from art major to forensic anthropologist specializing in fire death investigation. Her groundbreaking research has debunked long-standing myths in the fire investigation community, including misconceptions about exploding skulls and spontaneous human combustion.

Key highlights from the interview:

• How Elayne transitioned from studying art to becoming a pioneer in fire fatality research
• The shocking truth behind fire investigation myths that were taught industry-wide for decades
• Why pig testing doesn't accurately replicate human fire fatalities
• The critical importance of proper scene preservation and body handling
• How bodies actually move and change position during fires - something most investigators don't realize
• Essential do's and don'ts when working fire fatality scenes

Personal Updates & Big News

Chasity shares exciting news about becoming a co-owner of her own fire investigation company, marking a major career milestone at just 30 years old. Meanwhile, Scott discusses their agency's successful FI-210 wildland fire investigation class, which included an impressive 26 live wildland burns with support from IAAI's Rick Jones.

Training Opportunities & Upcoming Events

The hosts provide a comprehensive roundup of upcoming training opportunities, including:

• Hawaii's annual fire investigation training (August 5-8)
• Indiana Fire Investigation Conference (August 10-13)
• Tennessee Chapter ATC (August 18-22)
• Special webinar on Wildland Fire Investigation (August 7th) featuring Scott and Shaun Miller
• Nebraska, North Dakota, and California conferences throughout September and October

Technical Discussion: Fire Patterns & Terminology

The episode continues their educational series on fire patterns with a deep dive into "full room involvement generated patterns." Scott and Chasity explain why they prefer using "full room involvement" over "flashover" in their reports, sharing insights on how terminology choices can protect investigators during legal proceedings.

Sponsor Spotlight

Clean Space Technology's Tim Costa joins the show to discuss respiratory protection innovations specifically designed for fire investigators, addressing the common complaint that traditional respirators "suck" and how their technology makes protection more comfortable and effective.

This episode perfectly balances technical education with real-world practical advice, making it valuable for both new and experienced fire investigators. Whether you're interested in the science behind fire fatalities or looking to improve your investigation techniques, this conversation with Elayne Pope offers insights you won't find anywhere else.

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Live from IAAI-ITC with Fire Investigation Students Molly Morrow and Maggie Fluharty. 

Scott and Chasity return to in-person recording after their busy 4th of July weekend, diving into an engaging conversation about AI-generated images and Scott's impressive new wildland fire investigation app. The hosts share their experiences identifying fake AI content and discuss the evolving landscape of artificial intelligence in media. Scott reveals his exciting project - a custom app designed for his FI 210 wildland fire investigation class that helps students identify 11 key indicators in the field, complete with photos and confidence levels for advancing, lateral, and backing fire spreads.

The main feature presents Molly Morrow and Maggie Fluharty, two passionate students from Eastern Kentucky University who are making waves in fire investigation research. Molly, a senior fire investigation major whose firefighter father influenced her career path, and Maggie, a forensic science major with a biology concentration, share their fascinating work on depth of calcination studies. Their research examines how different types of gypsum board (lightweight Type C, moisture resistant, soundproof, and Glass Rock) respond to various heat fluxes using digital depth probes for consistent measurements. The students explain how their color-coded graphs and precise data collection could revolutionize how investigators interpret fire damage patterns in the field.

The episode also features valuable resources for aspiring investigators, including recommendations for Fire Investigation magazine, John Lentini's newsletter archives, and networking opportunities through the IAAI student program. With upcoming training opportunities in Arizona, Georgia, California, Hawaii, Indiana, and Tennessee, plus a special virtual wildland investigation seminar, this episode perfectly captures the collaborative spirit and cutting-edge research driving the fire investigation community forward.

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Get ready for a mind-blowing deep dive into the science of spontaneous combustion! 

Scott and Chastity catch up on their busy schedules, with Scott fresh from teaching at the Fire Investigator Academy in Fresno where students bond over four intensive weeks of training. The hosts discuss recent marine fire investigation training and upcoming wildland classes before diving into the main event.

The Doug Byron Interview: Spontaneous Combustion Masterclass

The real star of this episode is Dr. Doug Byron from Fast Labs, a renowned expert in spontaneous combustion who's been practicing forensic scientific testing for 30 years. His journey into fire forensics began unexpectedly after a car accident derailed his military aviation plans, leading him to answer phones at his father's ATF laboratory - and the rest is history.

Doug definitively settles the mulch pile debate that plagues investigators: small playground mulch piles CANNOT spontaneously combust. The mass simply isn't there for heat retention. But here's the kicker - castor oil in hair products can absolutely cause spontaneous ignition in laundry baskets, something most investigators have never encountered.

The episode reveals why Friday and Saturday night commercial fires often involve spontaneous combustion - workers rushing to leave for the weekend skip proper rag disposal protocols. Doug explains the fascinating science behind cooking oil fires in restaurants, particularly Mediterranean and Mexican establishments where heavy oils create perfect storm conditions.

Pro Tips That Will Blow Your Mind:

• Your HVAC filter can be tested for byproducts of spontaneous combustion reactions - a forensic goldmine most investigators never consider
• Dryer cool-down cycles exist for a reason - removing clothes early creates dangerous conditions
• Cotton rags can retain oils through multiple wash cycles, remaining reactive for weeks
• Microfiber rags actually prevent spontaneous combustion because they melt before reaching critical temperatures

The Flowchart Revolution

Perhaps the most exciting development discussed is the creation of a spontaneous combustion investigation flowchart, inspired by student Sawyer's brilliant suggestion. This practical tool will help investigators systematically evaluate scenes and communicate effectively with laboratories.

Doug shares incredible case studies including hay bales (biological degradation), recycling super bags, and even latex gloves in warehouses. The science behind "clinkers" - those concrete-like masses found in burned materials - gets thoroughly explained, debunking old myths about their diagnostic value.

The conversation explores the differences between chemical reactions (cooking oils, wood stains) and biological processes (hay, organic materials). Doug explains why spray paints can self-heat but rarely ignite, and shares a jaw-dropping case involving aluminum signs with linseed oil ink that reached over 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit before open flame.

The episode concludes with information about upcoming training opportunities, including marine fire investigation in Boise and the Illinois Chapter seminar where Scott and Chastity will teach AI applications and defensive report writing strategies.

This episode is essential listening for any fire investigator serious about understanding spontaneous combustion. Doug Byron's expertise, combined with practical case studies and actionable investigation techniques, makes this a must-add to your professional development library.

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In this compelling episode, host Chasity Owens delivers a solo intro while Scott Kuhlman attends Marine Fire Investigation training through IAAI. This special episode features inspiring stories from Guatemala and engaging conversations with dedicated podcast listeners, showcasing the global reach and impact of fire investigation.

Key Highlights

Breaking Ground in Guatemala: Gretel's remarkable story of becoming Guatemala's first and only certified fire investigator after starting as a technology coach for struggling firefighters in 2014. Despite having no prior fire investigation knowledge, her engineering background and passion for learning led her to pursue training across multiple countries, paying out of pocket to build the expertise her country desperately needed.

Building a Fire Investigation Program: Learn how Gretel established her own fire investigation company, handling approximately 100 cases annually across Guatemala and Central America while training new investigators and maintaining her volunteer firefighter duties. Her work fills a critical gap where no public fire investigation services existed.

The Construction Connection: Both Braden and Dale emphasize the crucial importance of understanding building construction in fire investigation. Their backgrounds in code enforcement and construction provide invaluable insights into how buildings are designed, and built, and how fire travels through different structural systems.

International Training Efforts: The episode explores ongoing efforts to bring fire investigation training to underserved regions, including recent IAAI fundamentals training in Guatemala and upcoming programs in Colombia, Paraguay, and Chile.

Training Announcements

• Arizona Annual Training Conference: July 23-25 in Prescott, Arizona
• Georgia ATC: July 28-31 in Savannah, Georgia (featuring EV fires, solar panel investigations, and serial arsonist profiling)
• California Conference of Arson Investigators: October 6-9 (includes live burn day)

Sponsor Spotlight

The episode features Clean Space respiratory protection systems, highlighting improved visibility, comfort, and safety for fire scene investigations. Contact Tim Costa at 401-573-5341 or [email protected] for more information.

Episode Takeaways

This episode powerfully demonstrates the universal need for fire investigation expertise and the dedication required to build these capabilities from scratch. Gretel's story serves as an inspiration for investigators worldwide, while the listener segment reinforces the importance of networking and continuous learning within the fire investigation community. The diverse backgrounds of all guests underscore how different professional experiences enhance fire investigation capabilities.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the individual hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent official positions of affiliated organizations.

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In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens deliver another compelling installment from the International Association of Arson Investigators (IAAI) training conference. Recording remotely while Scott teaches at the Fire Investigator Academy in Fresno, the duo presents an illuminating conversation with Rick and Cassandra Jones, two passionate advocates for fire investigation certification and training excellence.

Rick Jones shares his journey from law enforcement canine handler to IAAI board member and eventual president during the challenging COVID-19 period, where he helped pivot the organization to remote training delivery. His wife Cassandra, with her educational background in English, brings her expertise in report writing and program development to their shared mission of elevating industry standards. Together, they've built a successful fire investigation company while dedicating countless volunteer hours to improving certification programs and training quality across the field.

The conversation centers on the critical importance of obtaining professional certifications, particularly the Evidence Collection Technician (ECT) program. The Joneses announce significant updates to certification requirements, including the elimination of mandatory evidence collection numbers in favor of training-based qualifications and the addition of five new evidence categories specifically designed for private-side investigators. These changes address long-standing concerns from investigators who participate in evidence collection but may not physically handle items themselves, making certifications more accessible while maintaining rigorous standards.

Rick and Cassandra emphasize that certifications serve as third-party validation of an investigator's competency, going beyond the minimum requirements of NFPA 1033 to include practical demonstrations and courtroom testimony experience. They detail the upcoming alignment of all IAAI certifications to five-year renewal cycles, streamlining the process for investigators while ensuring continued professional development. The couple's commitment extends to personally answering questions from members, with Rick providing his direct phone number and encouraging investigators at all levels to reach out for guidance.

The episode also highlights the Joneses' innovative internship program, where university students pursuing fire investigation degrees spend 5-7 weeks living and working with their company, gaining invaluable real-world experience. These stories, including humorous accounts of interns learning the realities of hands-and-knees scene processing, demonstrate their dedication to nurturing the next generation of fire investigators.

Scott and Chasity wrap up with their popular segments, including "We Train Frequently" spotlighting upcoming conferences in Arizona and Georgia, and "Can You Use It In A Sentence" continuing their educational series on fire investigation terminology. The hosts also address listener questions about accessing Science Advisory Work Group meetings, explaining the confidential nature of these peer review sessions while encouraging participation in local chapters.

This episode reinforces the podcast's mission of connecting the fire investigation community through shared knowledge and professional development opportunities, showcasing how industry leaders like Rick and Cassandra Jones are working tirelessly to advance the field through improved training and certification standards.

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