Fire Science Show

CFD is the most talked-over subject in the Fire Science Show. There are two reasons for that: one, it is interesting and relevant for so many of the Audience, and two, it's something I do for a living. 

There is also another reason: there are a lot of ideas and concepts of how CFD could be used "better", yet I struggle to see them make an impact in the world of practical engineering. I would love to see the CFD being used in fire as it is in aerospace or Formula1 industries, yet, there are some struggles and bottlenecks that prevent that. 

In this podcast episode, I am trying to narrow down the issues and what breakthroughs are necessary to enable scalable CFD analyses for the future. We could get so much more out of our simulations if we fully benefit from the computational power revolution and pursue new data processing methods. The latter are discussed in-depth, showcasing our newest developments at the ITB.
 
Recommended Fire Science Show episodes:

• Fire Fundamentals pt 7 - CFD simulations in fire 
• Fire Fundamentals pt 11 - Boundary conditions in CFD
• Episode 13 with Wolfram Jahn on Use and abuse of CFD
• Episode 81 with Kevin McGrattan on the origins of FDS
• Episode 167 with Jonathan Hodges on simulating fire effects and growth

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

One could argue full-scale experiments on fire phenomena are the most enriching for our knowledge as the fire community. The costs associated with them and logistical nightmares of organizing them make them an uncommon sight. However, in an instance where we reach the boundaries of our knowledge, they are necessary to progress further. 

That was the case of the research programme carried out by the OFR, in the umbrella of Structural Timber Association Special Interest Group (SIG) - CLT compartment fire behaviour, including the industrial partners: Binderholtz, KLH and Stora Enso, Henkel and Fermacell. Two large experimental packages of that collaboration ended up in my laboratory, and we got to test our hypothesis and progress our approach to designing mass timber through experiments.

In this podcast episode, Dr Danny Hopkin makes a comeback to the show to give us insight into the observations and conclusions of those very large research programmes. We focus on how findings relate to the current design paradigm, and in which areas the approach has shifted. Following the evolution of the experiment itself, we discuss the changes in the fire behaviour as less and less surfaces were encapsulated, and some problems with partial protection that emerged as a consequence. Finally, we cover topics such as delamination, self-extinction and external flame from mass timber buildings – all important considerations for a designer.

If you would like to learn more about the experiments we have done, please go to the research papers:

• Hopkin D., et al. Full-Scale Fire Experiments on Cross-Laminated Timber Residential Enclosures Featuring Different Lining Protection Configurations
• Hopkin D., et al. Large-Scale Enclosure Fire Experiments Adopting CLT Slabs with Different Types of Polyurethane Adhesives: Genesis and Preliminary Findings
• Hopkin D., et al. Implications Of A Down-stand Beam On The Ceiling Flame Extension Characteristics In A Large-scale Clt Enclosure Fire Experiment

Or the STA document library.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

I approach modelling water mist with caution. Not that I don't understand it, but because I lack clarity in the goals and objectives, as well I'm usually aware I may not deliver the expectations of my clients in terms of the physical phenomena I am capturing... And I'm not the only one like this. In this podcast episode I explore the world of water mist with Dr Max Lakkonen from IFAB, who has just been chosen as the new President of the International Water Mist Association (IWMA),

Max dives into the history and evolution of water mist technology, explaining how a catastrophic fire on a Scandinavian Star Cruise liner 35 years ago led to its commercial introduction. Discover why understanding droplet size is crucial for optimising water mist systems and why it's important to understand these systems with a clear understanding of objectives to achieve effective fire safety solutions.

Max discusses the necessity of extensive experimental testing to account for different nozzle types, pressures, and flow rates, highlighting the complexity involved in designing these systems. We also touch on the importance of industry collaboration and the role of organizations like IWMA in bridging the gap between specialized water mist companies and fire safety engineers, ultimately ensuring the dissemination of crucial information and best practices.

Dive into the intricacies of CFD modelling in fire safety engineering, especially for water mist systems. Max brings to light the limitations of relying solely on CFD without experimental validation and the benefits of using CFD for preliminary studies to save both time and costs. We address the unique challenges of modelling cooling effects, fire suppression in tunnels, and the need for best practices and guidelines in fire safety engineering. Listen in to gain valuable insights from one of the leading experts in the field and understand why practical application often trumps academic theory in real-world fire control scenarios.

Most importantly, the CFD Position Paper we have promised to you is available to download now!!!

Make sure to visit the International Water Mist Association site for more resources and the necessary connection with the industry.

The cover image was captured at the Baltic Fire Laboratory during ITB-FRISSBE Summer School. If you want to see it live, pay attention to our announcements on LinkedIn, and perhaps we can see each other next summer!

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

What happens to controlled doors when a fire is detected in the building? They unlock. Elevators? They go down. People are guided somewhere, and the fire strategy is executed. As it should.

But what if the real threat is not the fire itself? What if the real threat is using the fire as a decoy or, worse, as a tool? What if the threat has intelligence, motives and the ability to adapt to the actions of our systems?

Now, this is a frightening scenario. A scenario in which the security objectives could be much more important than fire ones. But we do not design our fire safety systems for such a possibility. Likewise, the security layer affects 'our' design by interfering with evacuation pathways or locking parts of the facility that we would like to keep open.

In this episode, Steve Gwynne and Aoife Hunt from Movement Strategies take me on a journey of integrating fire safety and security objectives in the building design. Learn how ingress, circulation, and egress must align with safety and operational procedures, and discover the potentially catastrophic outcomes when fire safety engineers overlook security aspects.

As we rethink traditional fire safety strategies in the face of modern threats, this episode explores the intersection of fire safety and security like never before. We discuss increasing fire recognition as a weapon and the necessity for integrating advanced detection systems and human behaviour training. Together with Steve and Aoife, we strongly advocate for a unified approach to building safety that leverages the strengths of both disciplines, making our environments safer and more resilient. 

Here, I would like to direct you towards two resources of my own:

• Fire Fundamentals, episode 6, covers how the building responds to a fire. Please listen to this episode but with your new 'security' view in mind. It will give you a new sense of what we do in our buildings for fire.
• The entire Uncovered Witness - Fire Science Revelations podcast that I am producing. In the eight episodes, we go very deep into human evacuation in a building, from regulations through building systems and management to human behaviour and decision-making. 

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

EVs are becoming more of a 'normal' part of fire safety engineering rather than an 'exotic problem'. I've invited two colleagues from Thornton Tomasetti - Ali Ashrafi and Pawel Woelke, to discuss what this engineering looks like. 

In the episode, we discuss insights into how fire risks differ between electric and internal combustion engine vehicles and why the focus is shifting from cars to more pressing hazards like electric scooters and energy storage systems. We explore the different approaches in the US and Europe, discussing the importance of performance-based solutions and timely detection to manage fire risks effectively. W We'll also discuss the critical role of ongoing education and adaptation in the fire safety industry as technology evolves.

An important aspect is the practical strategies for mitigating fire spread and explosion hazards in vehicle design and parking facilities. From the significance of separation distances and sprinklers to the potential dangers of gas accumulation, our conversation dives deep into the intricacies of ensuring a safer environment for both people and property. We also highlight the importance of early planning and thoughtful design in integrating EV infrastructure into building designs, and how real-world incidents shape our understanding and approach to EV safety. 

If you would like further reading, please refer to the phase 2 report from NFPA at
https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/fire-protection-research-foundation/projects-and-reports/modern-vehicle-hazards-in-parking-garages-vehicle-carriers

You may also be interested in the investigation of the explosion hazards researched by FSRI - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236124019677?via%3Dihub=
 

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Fires in the waste industry are not discussed much unless one sees a giant smoke plume in the media, followed by advice to close your windows. In these (rare?) cases, we remind ourselves of the massive industry related to storing, sorting and recycling garbage, and the obvious environmental hazards such fires pose.

From 2017 to 2020, Poland experienced a challenging time with fires at landfills, primarily caused by arson or negligence. A bit later, when I was working on my chapter for the Handbook of Fire and the Environment, I saw Ragni Fjellgaard Mikalsen working on hers about waste fires, and I found that work very relevant and useful. Finally, it is time to dive deeper into the subject, and hence, I have Ragni on the podcast, and we talk about garbage!

Her expertise in smouldering fires and collaborations with Norwegian authorities bring invaluable insights into the unique fire risks faced by waste handling, processing, and storage facilities. From outdoor landfills to indoor recycling centres, Ragni shares how accurate fire reporting and comprehensive data analysis can significantly enhance fire safety protocols in this crucial sector. She introduces us to the "traffic light" system to illustrate the risks at different facilities.

Balancing ideal waste storage practices with economic realities is no small feat. In this episode, Ragni discusses the intricacies of managing waste storage, from controlling moisture and temperature in storage piles to proper sorting practices to minimise impurities in incoming waste. We also cover the urgent need for governmental intervention and innovative insurance solutions to tackle the high-hazard waste mismanagement issues in places like Poland.

And here are the promised further reading resources from Ragni:

Link to waste paper: 

Fires in waste facilities: Challenges and solutions from a Scandinavian perspective, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.firesaf.2020.103023 

Link to Handbook: 

Chapter 13 on Mitigation Strategies for Waste Fires in Handbook of Fire and the Environment: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-94356-1

The Norwegian info is based on work by RISE Fire Research in Norway: 

• R.F. Mikalsen, K. Glansberg, K. Storesund, S. Ranneklev, Branner I Avfallsanlegg (Fires in Waste Storage) RISE-report 2019:61, RISE Fire Research, Trondheim,2019. https://risefr.no/media/publikasjoner/upload/2019/rise-rapport-2019-61-branner-i-avfallsanlegg.pdf

The Swedish info is based on work by RISE in Sweden: 

• A. Lønnermark, P. Blomqvist. Emissions from Fires in Electrical and Electronics Waste ISSN 0284-5172, SP report 2005:42, SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden, Sweden, 2005. http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn¼urn%3Anbn%3Ase%3Ari%3Adiva-4695 .
• A. Lønnermark, H. Persson, P. Blomqvist, W. Hogland, Biobränslen Och Avfall - Brands€akerhet i Samband Med Lagring (Biofuels and solid waste – fire safety in connection with storage) SP Report, SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden, Sweden, 2008. http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn%3Anbn%3Ase%3Alnu%3Adiva-3575
• A. Lønnermark. Analyses of Fire Debris after Tyre Fires and Fires in Electrical and Electronics Waste ISSN 0284-5172, SP report 2005:44, SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden, 2005. http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn%3Anbn%3Ase%3Ari%3Adiva-4697
• A. Lønnermark, Emission from Landfill Fires and Fires in Stor

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

In this episode we talk with Jonathan Hodges of the Jensen Hughes on his experience with using advanced modelling in the realm of fire safety engineering. Jonathan sheds light on how the modelling is used at various Jensen Hughes offices around the world, highlighting interesting differences they see across their practice. 

The core of the talk revolves around using CFD for modeling the consequences of fires, versus using it to assess the fire growth. While the first one is a commonly practiced in offices across the world, the growth part is kind of a challenge. We go into how CFD can help us develop better fire scenarios, and how they can be further improved through an influx of experimental data. 

In the final part of the talk we are looking ahead, as we explore the transformative potential of AI-driven CFD surrogate modeling and GPU-based solvers, including the possibility conducting real-time CFD simulations without the prohibitive computational costs—this could soon be a reality. 

As we discuss these innovations, it becomes clear how they could impact fire safety engineering globally, providing deeper insights into fire dynamics and more robust engineering solutions. 

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

In the everchanging world every now and then we get a new driver, that dictates most of our choices. In the current built environment and building industry, carbon dioxide feels like such a driver. We don't like it, we want to get rid of it... One way is to sequester or store large amounts of CO2 in our buildings. Ways to do that - more obvious is mass timber, but thats not the only thing. Let's talk bio-based insulation.

In this episode I've invited Patrick Sudhoff, now from DBI but the research was carried at University of Applied Sciences Magdeburg-Stendal. Patrick carried his PhD on the smouldering fires in bio-based insulation, and thus has built a good knowledge base around the topic. We discuss all the types of different bio-based insulations, what they are made of and where they are used. First we cover the drivers and need for the new material, as well as the benefits it brings to the table. We discuss the challanges with the onset of smouldering, transition to flaming and spread of fire through the structure. 

List of projects that were related to the subject and discussed in the podcast:

• „More than just insulation additional benefits of insulation materials made from renewable raw materials “, 6 different research areas: fire protection, soundproofing, thermal insulation, sustainability analysis, moisture protection, emissions, 2016-2020, 12 institutes plus external partners
• “PyroProBiD – Development of a smoldering prognosis model for bio-based insulation materials”, 2020-2023 (my PhD project), Otto-von-Guericke University Magdeburg & University of Applied Sciences Magdeburg Stendal
•  “HoBraTec – Optimization of firefighting procedures for multistorey timber buildings", 2022-2024, Fire Brigade Hamburg & University of Applied Sciences Magdeburg-Stendal & Institute of Fire and Disaster Protection Heyrothsberge

Some literature I got from Patrick:

•  This poster gives you a brief summary of the latest challenges and solutions regarding the fire behavior of bio-based insulation - http://dx.doi.org/10.13140/RG.2.2.18735.14241

Further reading:

• Sudhoff, P. (2024): “Modeling the Fire Behavior of Bio-Based Insulation Materials”, Proceedings of the 4th International Symposium on Fire Safety of Facades 2024: 10-12 June 2024. Lund, Sweden, ISBN 978-91-89971-04-2
• Steen-Hansen, A., Fjellgaard M., Ehrlenspiel, R. (2023): “Smouldering fire test methods - Documenting the potential for smouldering fires in thermal insulation”, Report number: FRIC Report D3.1-2023.06, November 2023, http://dx.doi.org/10.13140/RG.2.2.21978.72640 
• Steen-Hansen, A., Mikalsen, R.F. & Jensen, U.E (2018) Smouldering Combustion in Loose-Fill Wood Fibre Thermal Insulation: An Experimental Study. Fire Technol 54, 1585–1608. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10694-018-0757-4

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Is the "best practice" always the best approach to solving an engineering problem? Can we consider "best" and "appropriate" practices synonymous, and if not - how big is the gap between them? Join us as we welcome Professor Arnold Dix back to challenge conventional wisdom in engineering. Focusing on the nuanced distinction between "best practice" and "appropriate practice," we explore how context-sensitive solutions outperform complex and costly standards. Using real-world examples like tunnel ventilation systems, we illustrate the power of practicality, cost-effectiveness, and suitability in engineering, particularly in fire safety.

We also uncover the hidden economic motives that shape our engineering standards. From Stockholm’s innovative fire suppression mechanisms integrated into everyday systems to the critical role of regulatory bodies in enforcing effective safety measures, we highlight the benefits of familiar, reliable solutions over specialized ones. Personal anecdotes and international examples, including a farm story and regulations in Poland, bring these concepts to life, showing how everyday systems can enhance reliability and community awareness.

Finally, we explore how different nations approach tunnel construction and infrastructure preservation. Highlighting the challenges and successes of countries like Argentina, Chile, China, and Malaysia, we emphasise the importance of building local expertise and resilience. This episode invites you to reconsider how we define and implement standards across various fields by examining practical solutions in ventilation systems and the importance of context-sensitive engineering practices. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on what constitutes best engineering practice and beyond.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

The last time I had Xinyan on the show was in 2021, and we were all excited about the possibilities that AI could bring to Fire Safety Engineering and Smart Firefighting. Three years have passed, and while we are still excited, we can now talk about experiences. What worked and what did not? Where were the challenges, and what was simple? You can only learn that from brainstorming, you learn this by doing. Xinyan's team implemented dozens of algorithms for various projects, and it is this experience we try to explore today.
 
The episode is bitter-sweet. Even though considerable progress was made in the AI layer, it is still not possible to implement this in firefighting. The barriers that always separated fire science from firefighting are still in place, and it is even harder to cross them with such a novel approach. As always, communication is the key. However, in the midst of the research, a realization was made. AI does not work that great with humans, but works perfectly well with robots. This gives a beginning to a new chapter - AI-powered robotic firefighting, and hell, this is really exciting stuff.

Besides smart firefighting, we spend good time discussing use of AI in Fire Safety Engineering itself. Xinyan's team is developing practical tools to assist the designers and engineers, and they look promising. What is most interesteing is that the implementation of those tools reasembles  how CFD was implemented back in the day - I have huge hopes for this technology.

If you want to read more about AI in PBD FSE, this is the paper you look for: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352710221003867#appsec1

If you want to learn more about the work of the PolyU X Fire Lab, learn more on their up-to-date webpage:  https://www.firelabxy.com/

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.