First Principles

From over here at The Ken's newsroom, we have a very exciting announcement: our first premium podcast – India's first premium business podcast – is now live!

It's called Two by Two – and this podcast will be your personal investigative brain. Each week Two by Two will be where hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan will be joined by a few interesting and opinionated guests to discuss some of the biggest questions from the world of Indian business.

But, why's it called Two by Two?

Here it is: each episode of the Two by Two podcast will feature an important story investigated and discussed and visualized as a 2x2. A simple matrix that's the purest form of conflict – that places the players and their motivations on both axes. Along with incredible guests, the hosts will discuss what is going on, why is it happening, who gains and who loses, and where is all of this leading to?

Two by Two is a premium podcast – but for now, the first episode is free for all listeners. On this episode, the hosts speak to Professor R Srinivasan and Srikanth Rajagopalan on the brewing rivalry between Flipkart and PhonePe, once parent and child, but now more like cousins. Flipkart, which is now venturing into FinTech with Super.money and Phonepe, which has launched the grocery delivery app Pincode are both stepping into each others turf.

What happens next?

Listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or wherever you find your podcasts.

Hello, we're back again with part 2 of our final, final supercut where we’ve spliced together one interesting bit of conversation from the last 21 guests I interviewed on First Principles. 

And like the last episode where we covered founders 1 to 20, you’ll hear super sharp slices of a few minutes each which are reflections on their approach to organization building, risk taking, decision making and life living.

Here are the guests you’ll get listen to in this episode:

Krish Subramanian, co-founder and CEO of Chargebee; Varun Dua, founder of Acko; Yashish Dahiya, co-founder and Group CEO of Policybazaar; Archit Gupta, co-founder and CEO of Clear; M N Srinivasu, co-founder and Director of Billdesk; Radhika Gupta, MD and CEO of Edelweiss Asset Management; Lalit Keshre, co-founder and CEO of Groww; Niraj Singh, founder and CEO of Spinny; Karthik Jayaraman, Managing Director of Waycool; Ritesh Agarwal, founder and CEO of Oyo; Soumya Rajan, founder and CEO of Waterfield Advisors; Viren Shetty, Executive Vice Chairman of Narayana Health; Aneesh Reddy, Founder and MD of Capillary Technologies; Vaibhav Gupta, co-founder and CEO of Udaan; Girish Mathrubootham, Founder and Executive Chairman of Freshworks; Harsh Mariwala, Chairman of Marico; Chetan Maini, co-founder and chairman of SUN Mobility; Jaydeep Barman, co-founder and CEO of Rebel Foods; Alok Mittal, co-founder and MD of Indifi Technologies; Kapil Chopra, Founder of The Postcard Hotels; and Manav Garg, founder of Eka.

This is not the end of the road for me as a podcast host as you’ll soon find out. Actually, very soon. 

I'm Rohin Dharmakumar, your host. And here's part 2 of the final, final supercut.

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Also, if you haven't already, do subscribe to the First Principles newsletter. You can sign up for free here!

I know what you’re thinking. Didn’t the First Principles podcast draw its curtains? Yes we did.

But then we decided to do a final super-splice of every single episode we did. There were 41 founders. A bit too many for a single supercut episode, don’t you think?

So, here’s the first 20.

We went through all the episodes and picked a few minutes from each that we felt captured the essence of the specific founder and their approach to entrepreneurship, leadership, and well, life.

You’ll listen to Kabeer Biswas, co-founder and CEO of Dunzo; Baskar Subramamian, co-founder and CEO of Amagi; Nithin Kamath, co-founder and CEO of Zerodha; Naveen Tewari, founder and CEO at InMobi; Ananth Narayanan, founder and CEO of Mensa Brands; Harshil Mathur, co-founder and CEO of Razorpay; Vineeta Singh, co-founder and CEO of Sugar Cosmetics; Amrish Rau, CEO of Pine Labs; Amit Agarwal, co-founder and CEO of NoBroker; Tarun Mehta, co-founder and CEO of Ather Energy; Deep Kalra, founder and chairman of MakeMyTrip; Ruchi Kalra, co-founder and CEO of Oxyzo; Kamal Sagar, co-founder and CEO of Total Environment; Srikanth Iyer, co-founder and CEO of Homelane; Shan Kadavil, founder and CEO of Fresh to Home; Kunal Shah, founder and CEO of CRED; Srikanth Velamakanni, co-founder and CEO of Fractal; Ronnie Screwvala, co-founder and chairperson of UpGrad; Gaurav Munjal, co-founder and CEO of Unacademy; and Smita Deorah, co-founder and co-CEO of LEAD.

Even if you’ve listened to many of these episodes, I think you might enjoy this intense supercut.

Meanwhile, we’re working hard at our next podcast. Which I should be able to introduce to you very shortly. I’m excited!

I’m Rohin Dharmakumar, your host. And here’s part 1 of final, final supercut.

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While you’re still here you can sign up for the First Principles Newsletter here and continue to be part of the First Principles community.

First Principles is coming to an end. But it's not the end of the road for you as listeners.

We still want to hear from you and know what you expect from the podcasts from The Ken. Let us know with your suggestions and critique.

We'd love to know your thoughts and you can let us know here.

Also, you can always write to us at [email protected] with your thoughts.

Becoming an entrepreneur is a leap of faith. Regardless of when or even if your business sees the light of day, starting up is still a tremendously hard thing for someone to take up, work on and say out loud to the world.

The leap of faith still exists when you're a woman founder, but with a bunch of other variables you didn't ask for also thrown in.

But I'll tell you what doesn't change. It still takes the same amount of passion, the joy of building, stress, frustration and the ability to manage fires that might go off anytime to keep the ship steady, and eventually succeed in the long run.

Being a woman founder does present its own challenges and hurdles that are often unexpected or even patronising. Because if you've decided to jump into the world of terrible and exciting, then these are just additional hoops that you have to jump through.

That's why role models matter. I must confess we - I - have been disappointed at not being able to get a lot more woman founders and their stories on First Principles. You can be sure we're trying to change that over time. 

But in today's supercut episode, we bring together five women founders from earlier episodes.

This episode features Vineeta Singh of SUGAR Cosmetics, Smita Deorah of LEAD School, Ruchi Kalra of Oxyzo, Radhika Gupta of Edelweiss Asset Management and Soumya Rajan of Waterfield Advisors.

Welcome to First Principles—The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken.

Let's get started.

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Apply for the Young Business Leadership Programme!

What is it?

It is an ambitious and exciting role where we take a handful of talented, ambitious and eager-to-learn graduates from India's top colleges and put them through a two-year program where they will work in different roles and functions at The Ken.

And throughout the two years they will learn virtually all key aspects of building, innovating and scaling a modern "journalism as a product" organization, well, from first principles.

If you want to understand the "why" of why we're doing this, you'll find the details to that here, but if you're just excited about the opportunity from the little I have told you and you're just thinking about "how" do I apply, here's the link for that.

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Also, have you listened to the latest episode of The First Two Years(or TFTY)—The Early Careers podcast from The Ken?

In the latest episode of TFTY, host Akshaya Chandrasekaran goes on a quest to explore how to solicit feedback as requested by a listener of the podcast. Akshaya directed the listener's question to guests on the episode who shared surprising tips and pragmatic ways to ask for feedback. What exactly did they have to say?

Listen to the episode here to find out.

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If you haven't already, subscribe to the First Principles newsletter. It's free. All you need to do is sign up, and you'll find a thoughtfully curated newsletter capturing unique insights on the mental models and first principles, along with a curated list of photos and books contributed by the enthusiastic First Principles community.

You can sign up here!

Also, if you enjoyed listening to this episode, do rate us on your favourite streaming platform, and if you have opinions on what we should be doing differently or just any feedback, good or bad, write to us at [email protected]. We'll be sure to read it.

In the first part of my conversation with Manav Garg, I introduced him as the founder of Eka Software. This week, I would like to reintroduce Manav as a venture capitalist and the co-founder of Together Fund, a VC firm. Well, you know how I feel about having venture capitalists on First Principles if you've listened to my conversation with Alok Mittal.

I had said in that conversation that venture capitalists are facilitators or enablers, not builders or doers.

Manav, too, like Alok Mittal earlier, has been at both ends, being a facilitator and also being in the thick of building an organisation. A few months ago, he fully transitioned into being a venture capitalist and has raised almost $150 million for Together Fund's Fund II(Fund Two), which is almost double the $85 million they raised for their first fund. Manav terms Together as a founder and 'operator-led' firm, and that distinguishes it from other VC funds.

Manav explained it as, "So we are the people who can, you know, roll our sleeves with them and really help them where they can really think like founders. And our concept was repetition over returns. We want to really think for the founders with empathy and really help them build a global company."

If Alok Mittal's story was about turning from a VC to a founder, Manav's is about turning from a founder to a VC. Well, he is sort of both as a co-founder of Together Fund. But the question is, can a founder be a better VC than, well, a VC?

Welcome to First Principles—The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken.

Let's get started.

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Have you listened to The Ken's early careers podcast, The First Two Years, yet? If you haven't, we've got the perfect episode to start you off. In the latest episode, host Akshaya Chandrasekaran went about exploring how to do networking without making it feel forced and cringe. Check out the episode here!

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Also, if you're still here, help us improve First Principles with your suggestions, feedback, and guests you would wish to see featured in a future episode. Write to us [email protected]. And if you haven't already, become a part of the First Principles community by signing up for the First Principles newsletter here!

"This notion of a startup should be centered around the founder is a mindset. It makes for great stories. It makes for great heroes. And that's the reason why that sustains But, you know, there are great organizations that have been built where founders did not believe in that. And the organizations sustain even after the founder leaves."

That's what Alok Mittal, founder and MD of Indifi, an online lending platform, had to say about startups getting caught up in the founder-worshipping trap.

I hope you have heard my first episode with him. I often ask founders if they believe in the concept of a founder-led organization. Or how they're planning for a post-founder future for their organization. Because like Alok, I do believe that just like a parent's role is to eventually step back and let go of their child, so it is for founders.

But that's not easy when we're living in the golden age of founders. Where co-founder tags are coveted much more than CEO titles. It's not easy for many founders to let go. 

But that was just one of the things that Alok and I discussed in our conversation. Alok, if you didn't know already, is involved in a lot of things. His day job might be MD of Indifi, but he is also the founding board member of Indian Angel Network and co-founder of Plaksha University.

Plaksha is a project he has been working on for quite some time and the way it is structured was interesting and something a lot of centers of education should be aiming to build in India as Alok explained:

"The notion of departments that exist in educational institutions is not the right architecture. Especially for a country like India, more and more of technology skills have to get expressed as entrepreneurship for it to be relevant to society. I don't think we have another answer for the jobs we need to create or the growth that we need to build.

Now, you take all of that, and the question that we are asking is, what does that mean for the university system? And so, for example, at Plaksha, there are no departments. There are these integrated centers of research which are oriented towards a particular problem like climate. But there is no computer science department, there is no mechanical engineering department. There is no mechanical engineering major because we don't think that students will need to be experts at mechanical engineering in a silo to be able to build.

So there is a major in autonomous systems, which means robotics, which means drones, which means all of that. But there's a major in biological systems, which means genetic engineering, which means personalized medicine, things of that nature. So that is the new architecture that we are putting in place for how technology education should be done."

If you haven't already checked out the first part of my conversation with Alok Mittal, now would be the perfect time to give it a listen. You'll find in that conversation when and how Alok fell in love with the idea of being an entrepreneur.

Welcome to First Principles—The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken.

Let's get started.

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Introducing Patron Subscriptions!

If you wish to know more about Patron Subscriptions you can find the link for that here. And if you want to take the conversation forward and know what you have to do to gift The Ken, you'll find the link for that here.

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Thank you for writing to us at [email protected] with your opinions, suggestions and feedback. Please continue to do so. It helps us in making First Principles better for you, the audience.

Have you signed up and started using The Ken's new app? If you haven't already, here are the links to both Android and iOS.

“As I said, I am from a middle-class family. I was earning $10,000/month, which is a large sum in those days. And sitting in Singapore, Bangkok, travelling around the world. So my the larger question in my mind is that how do I take the decision?” says Manav Garg.

Manav Garg, founder and former CEO of Eka Software, a SaaS company that operates in the global commodities trading space. "Former CEO" because Manav started Eka in 2004 and just sold it earlier this year. 

Since Manav was earning $10K a month back in the early 2000s, we talked about golden handcuffs. You know, when people earn so much that they become risk averse? A lot of people are attracted to the lure of startups but not necessarily the grind that comes with them. Including much, much lower pay. 

“So, my competition was TriplePoint, Openlink, SAP. Large companies, at that time. $100 million plus companies. So, I started calling them. Cold calling. And few of them didn't pick up my phone.

One person luckily picked up my phone saying, ‘Please don't call me again and again. It's not nice. I'm never going to work for Indian company.’

I said, ‘Fine. Since I have you on phone, can I meet you?’

He said, ‘No.’

He said, ‘No. What will you do by meeting me?’

I said, ‘Let's have coffee. What I will do is, tell me your travel schedule.’

He said, ‘I am flying to London tomorrow, so I am going to be very busy.’

I said, ‘Okay, let me do one thing. I will travel to London next day and I will meet you at Heathrow. Just have a coffee. You anyway will take a shower.’

Most of the people from New York travel to London that red-eye flight, take a shower in the arrival launch. I knew that. I said, ‘I will meet in the arrival launch. Half an hour coffee and then you are free to go.’

He said, ‘Fine.’

Luckily, he said, ‘Fine.’”

It takes a LOT of courage to fly to London to meet someone who said he doesn’t want to work for an Indian company. And a LOT of vision to convince that person to join you. That’s what happened at the end of that 30-minute meeting that stretched to 2 hours. 

Today, after 20 years as founder, Manav has jumped right back into the ring as the co-founder of venture capital firm TogetherFund, along with Girish Mathrubootham of Freshworks and others. When I asked him about something most potential founders overlooked, his answer was easy: Co-founder selection. 

“See, in India also, still we have in that cultural mix, where you start up with your college friends because you spend time in dorms together, in college, you went through life's ups and downs together, right?

 So, therefore, you're very attuned to start up with your friends from college, most likely, that's the most likely case, or from your workplace. You work with somebody in Amazon, Flipkart, Freshworks, Eka, Zoho, so therefore you end up starting up.

I personally think that there is also a way to manufacture your co-founders.”

 Manav advises founders to set aside at least 6 months to “manufacture” their co-founders by just meeting a LOT of people. 

My conversation with Manav uncovers a lot of insight on how young founders should think about building for the long haul. He did it for 20 years. 

There’s a lot of very counterintuitive builder wisdom to unpack in today’s conversation.

Welcome to First Principles–The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken.

Let’s get started.

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Daybreak is now a daily podcast.

Listen to the first special episode we released on 17th May: “Why aren’t we scared of chemicals in our skincare anymore?”

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If you love listening to First Principles, we’re sure you will enjoy reading our Sunday newsletter, aptly titled First Principles as well. Sign up here, it’s free.

Also, write to us [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.

(P.S. A lot of you have written to us over the last few weeks with thoughtful suggestions and excellent feedback. We’ll be sure to take all of it into consideration when putting these episodes together for you.)

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Also, have you checked out The Ken’s new app? It’s packed with a lot of new features. Read all about it here. If you haven’t downloaded it already, here are the links to both iOS and Android.

Kapil Chopra, the founder and CEO of Postcard Hotels told me the following statistics.

Of the 10 million foreign tourists who visit India each year, roughly 10% - one million - are classified as luxury. 

“So we've kind of made entire Rajasthan and Kerala as two big sectors for one million tourists,” he said.

In comparison domestic trips made by Indians was around 2.3 billion a year, a few years ago. 

Even if just 1% of those could be upgraded to luxury travel, that’s 23 million.

Chopra wants to make that happen with Postcard Hotels, his luxury boutique hotel chain. Launched in 2018 with 3 hotels, it has 9 today, and 23 in the works. 

He wants them all to be in what he calls the “transformational” category. What’s that you ask?

The first level is commodity. A bed, an air conditioner and a bathroom.

The second level represent hotels that offer differentiated “products”.

The third level are the luxury hotels come, differentiated by exceptional service.

The fourth level is experiential. It’s what Airbnb does when it offers you the ability to stay in Paris at a place that overlooks the Eiffel Tower.

The fifth level is for “transformative experiences”.

“When you combine all of them. If you're able to give a good product, great world class service, great experiential experiences, soak in the destination. If you add all of this together, it becomes transformational,” says Chopra.

He lists three luxury hotel brands in the fifth category – Aman Resorts, Six Senses and One & Only.

“And I looked at them and said, what is common?  They were all founder-led. And the founders were amazing. But the founders all lost control of the brands they had built,” he says.

Kapil Chopra doesn’t want to join that group.

Kapil also has strong opinions on why he believes the luxury hotel business has become sterile and unexciting over the years, and how Postcard is changing that image. Apart from Postcard, Kapil Chopra is also the founder of the table reservation service, discovery and payment platform, EazyDiner.

Over the course of our conversation he also talks about:

• How luxury travel and travelers are evolving in India
• Why did he choose to leave the Oberoi Group at the height of his career
• How he’s become calmer after starting Postcard Hotels
• How he’s doing fundraising, investments and expansion in way that doesn’t endanger the parent company
• Why ESOPs and wealth creation needs to be more prevalent in the hospitality and travel industries

Welcome to First Principles–The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken.

Let’s get started.

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If you love listening to First Principles we’re sure you will enjoy reading our Sunday newsletter aptly titled First Principles as well. Sign up here, it’s free.

Also write to us [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.

And if you'd like to listen to the First Principles Summer Playlist you'll find it here!

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Also have you checked out The Ken’s new app. It’s packed with a lot of new features. Read all about it here. If you haven’t downloaded it already here are the links to both iOS and android.

Jaydeep Barman has settled into his role of being a CEO for quite some time now. He admits he was not always the nicest of people when they restarted or ‘actually started’ Faasos, which later became Rebel Foods, as a QSR chain in 2011. He would be unreasonable and brash with the people he worked with and in his own words “must have rubbed people the wrong way”.

But with time he has gained perspective, as one does when they go through all those experiences. Now, he’s thankful for all those who remained despite him not being the best boss.

Today Jaydeep believes Rebel has found its way but he resists to rest in this fast changing world even though he stands by one belief: People’s love for good quality food will always be there and till the day that doesn’t change Rebel will be very much in business.

In the first part of our conversation with Jaydeep he recounted the journey of Rebel Foods, a lot of anecdotes about the restaurant industry at large, how he hires people with founder’s mentality and not LinkedIn mentality and a whole lot more…

We strongly recommend listening to the first part of our conversation with Jaydeep to get the full picture or if you wish you could read the full transcript of that conversation here.

In this second part of our conversation too, Jaydeep was full of insights about the internet restaurant empire he has built and how they arrived at its current version not with clear, set ideas but a lot of experimentation and realising what works and what doesn’t on the way.

Jaydeep also touched upon a lot of other things including:

• The role his co-founder, Kallol Banerjee plays at Rebel
• How they arrived at Rebel OS and the possibilities it holds
• How, at Rebel written reports are the norm and not the exception

Welcome to First Principles–The weekly leadership podcast from The Ken

Let’s get started.

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Also, The Ken launched a revamped new app. The experience of reading The Ken got a whole lot better. Find out all the new features we added in this update and how we’ve made the reading faster, smoother and accessible to everyone here, including a fully optimised app for iPad.

Check out the new version of The Ken on iOS and android for yourself. Sign up and tell us your experience.

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Additionally, if you love listening to First Principles we’re sure you will enjoy reading our Sunday newsletter aptly titled First Principles as well. It’s the perfect read for a laid back Sunday morning. Every week you’ll see us discussing mental models, insights from disruptive thinkers and founders, photos and book recommendations curated with help of our wonderful First Principles community and even fun playlists. Sign up here, it’s free.

In fact, listen to the Summer Playlist we shared in our latest edition. It’s eclectic, vibe-y and a must listen.