LessWrong (Curated & Popular)

“Foom & Doom 1: ‘Brain in a box in a basement’” by Steven Byrnes


Listen Later

1.1 Series summary and Table of Contents This is a two-post series on AI “foom” (this post) and “doom” (next post).

A decade or two ago, it was pretty common to discuss “foom & doom” scenarios, as advocated especially by Eliezer Yudkowsky. In a typical such scenario, a small team would build a system that would rocket (“foom”) from “unimpressive” to “Artificial Superintelligence” (ASI) within a very short time window (days, weeks, maybe months), involving very little compute (e.g. “brain in a box in a basement”), via recursive self-improvement. Absent some future technical breakthrough, the ASI would definitely be egregiously misaligned, without the slightest intrinsic interest in whether humans live or die. The ASI would be born into a world generally much like today's, a world utterly unprepared for this new mega-mind. The extinction of humans (and every other species) would rapidly follow (“doom”). The ASI would then spend [...]

---

Outline:

(00:11) 1.1 Series summary and Table of Contents

(02:35) 1.1.2 Should I stop reading if I expect LLMs to scale to ASI?

(04:50) 1.2 Post summary and Table of Contents

(07:40) 1.3 A far-more-powerful, yet-to-be-discovered, simple(ish) core of intelligence

(10:08) 1.3.1 Existence proof: the human cortex

(12:13) 1.3.2 Three increasingly-radical perspectives on what AI capability acquisition will look like

(14:18) 1.4 Counter-arguments to there being a far-more-powerful future AI paradigm, and my responses

(14:26) 1.4.1 Possible counter: If a different, much more powerful, AI paradigm existed, then someone would have already found it.

(16:33) 1.4.2 Possible counter: But LLMs will have already reached ASI before any other paradigm can even put its shoes on

(17:14) 1.4.3 Possible counter: If ASI will be part of a different paradigm, who cares? It's just gonna be a different flavor of ML.

(17:49) 1.4.4 Possible counter: If ASI will be part of a different paradigm, the new paradigm will be discovered by LLM agents, not humans, so this is just part of the continuous 'AIs-doing-AI-R&D' story like I've been saying

(18:54) 1.5 Training compute requirements: Frighteningly little

(20:34) 1.6 Downstream consequences of new paradigm with frighteningly little training compute

(20:42) 1.6.1 I'm broadly pessimistic about existing efforts to delay AGI

(23:18) 1.6.2 I'm broadly pessimistic about existing efforts towards regulating AGI

(24:09) 1.6.3 I expect that, almost as soon as we have AGI at all, we will have AGI that could survive indefinitely without humans

(25:46) 1.7 Very little R&D separating seemingly irrelevant from ASI

(26:34) 1.7.1 For a non-imitation-learning paradigm, getting to relevant at all is only slightly easier than getting to superintelligence

(31:05) 1.7.2 Plenty of room at the top

(31:47) 1.7.3 What's the rate-limiter?

(33:22) 1.8 Downstream consequences of very little R&D separating 'seemingly irrelevant' from 'ASI'

(33:30) 1.8.1 Very sharp takeoff in wall-clock time

(35:34) 1.8.1.1 But what about training time?

(36:26) 1.8.1.2 But what if we try to make takeoff smoother?

(37:18) 1.8.2 Sharp takeoff even without recursive self-improvement

(38:22) 1.8.2.1 ...But recursive self-improvement could also happen

(40:12) 1.8.3 Next-paradigm AI probably won't be deployed at all, and ASI will probably show up in a world not wildly different from today's

(42:55) 1.8.4 We better sort out technical alignment, sandbox test protocols, etc., before the new paradigm seems even relevant at all, let alone scary

(43:40) 1.8.5 AI-assisted alignment research seems pretty doomed

(45:22) 1.8.6 The rest of AI for AI safety seems
...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

LessWrong (Curated & Popular)By LessWrong

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

11 ratings


More shows like LessWrong (Curated & Popular)

View all
Conversations with Tyler by Mercatus Center at George Mason University

Conversations with Tyler

2,388 Listeners

Astral Codex Ten Podcast by Jeremiah

Astral Codex Ten Podcast

123 Listeners

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas by Sean Carroll | Wondery

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

4,133 Listeners

ManifoldOne by Steve Hsu

ManifoldOne

87 Listeners

The Jim Rutt Show by The Jim Rutt Show

The Jim Rutt Show

251 Listeners

Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST) by Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

87 Listeners

Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

Dwarkesh Podcast

389 Listeners

Hard Fork by The New York Times

Hard Fork

5,432 Listeners

Clearer Thinking with Spencer Greenberg by Spencer Greenberg

Clearer Thinking with Spencer Greenberg

128 Listeners

Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning by Razib Khan

Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning

198 Listeners

No Priors: Artificial Intelligence | Technology | Startups by Conviction

No Priors: Artificial Intelligence | Technology | Startups

121 Listeners

Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast by swyx + Alessio

Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast

75 Listeners

"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg by Turpentine

"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg

145 Listeners

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11) by Patrick McKenzie

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)

121 Listeners

LessWrong posts by zvi by zvi

LessWrong posts by zvi

1 Listeners