This is a very different episode from what we normally cover. On this show, we’ve covered the highs and lows of dozens of entrepreneurs’ journeys. And part of every one of those journeys takes them down the path of self-discovery. A path that challenges them and expands their worldview before transforming them into the successful business owners and operators they are today. But what happens if that path to self-discovery initially drags you down into some of the most hateful and violent places in humanity? One where fear, hatred, and self-loathing rule and lead to violent extremism? To be fair, this is not a typical path. And this is not one that any rational person would ever consider. But this path does exist, and all it takes is to read the news to know that it persists in the shadows of modern society. We believe that it makes sense to shine a light on it and expose it for what it is in the hopes of reforming those who are currently embedded within the rank and file of hate groups. There is hope for those who at first glance might seem beyond redemption. And to find that hope you need look no further than today’s guest: Arno Michaelis. Arno is a former leader of a white-nationalist group who, from the late 80’s to the early 90’s was involved in all sorts of violent acts against minorities, the LGBT community, and any white person he and his organization deemed to be unsupportive of his cause. The hatred and violence ran so deep that he even tried to take his own life, with two different suicide attempts. He saw friends killed, more go to prison, and he hurt innocent people, himself, and his family. All because he bought into a notion where he believed there would be a race war and that he was carrying out these acts because in doing so he was defending his race. At the very core of white nationalism exists the lie that the Aryan race is the superior race. But pull at any corner of this lie and it starts to unravel. For Arno, this lie was undone by the kindness and forgiveness shown to him by people he professed to hate. This, coupled with the birth of his daughter, led him to flee the life of violence and hatred he had inhabited. Once removed, he was faced with a choice: bury his past or make amends for it. It is to our society’s benefit that he chose the latter and is now a renowned author, speaker, and peacemaker actively working against violent extremists. Through his work, he has helped families reclaim loved ones who had joined hate groups, and prevented countless others from believing the narrative they preach. His most recent book is called the gift of our wounds, written alongside Pardeep Kaleka, whose father was killed in the Sikh temple shooting in 2012 by a white supremacist. The book formed the basis of our conversation on this episode, ranging from how music played an important role both in Arno’s entrance and exit from white nationalism, how hate groups recruit and how best to counteract them, and how Arno found happiness and forgiveness in the healing process that he’s currently going through and will continue to go through for the rest of his life.