Grit

Guest: Chris Degnan, CRO of Snowflake

Chris Degnan was a teenager when his world got turned upside-down: His stockbroker father was revealed to be a serial liar & fraudster and was sent to prison; the wealth he thought his family had evaporated; and their house was foreclosed on by the IRS. The traumatic experience gave him both an “insane drive” and a slew of anxieties, which shaped the person he became as an adult ... and led him, eventually, to the C-Suite of Snowflake. “Those things have built character,” Chris says. “I’m super proud of the person I am… That’s what matters to me.” 

In this episode, Chris and Joubin discuss adjusting to tech fame, holding onto perspective, detecting lies, being the monster, paranoia,  talking about anxiety, fear of flying, living your values, Mike Scarpelli, trimming down meeting sizes, sales calls, being abrasive, Mike Speiser, succession plans, and Mark McLaughlin.

In this episode, we cover:

• Defining yourself by your job (01:04)
• The origin of Chris’ insecurities (06:25)
• Passion for the sport (11:11)
• Dinner-table conversation (15:41)
• “If I stop working, I’m going to die” (17:22)
• Changing history (20:34)
• Snowflake and its competitors (24:29)
• Bob Muglia and hiring big-company people (27:10)
• Snowflake CEO Frank Slootman (31:53)
• Getting the truth (37:42)
• Denise Persson (41:58)
• Therapy and support systems (48:37)
• Bringing your friends (51:52)

Links:

• Connect with Chris
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Jim Lanzone, CEO of Yahoo

Jim Lanzone doesn’t waste time thinking about what other people think of him ... or the companies he has run. After helping to rejuvenate Ask.com in the early 2000s, he has more recently served as CEO of Tinder, and now Yahoo. As an expert in brand turnarounds, he says, “don’t worry about what the world thinks ... worry about your growth versus yourself.” With a focus on people and product, Jim believes, “not only can you accomplish a lot, you’re going to make a lot of money at doing it.”

In this episode, Jim and Joubin discuss being bicoastal, downtown San Francisco, supportive partners, Garret Camp and StumbleUpon, “co-opetition,” Walt Mossberg, Redpoint Ventures, Dave Goldberg, Clicker, taking punches, Apollo Global Management, loyalty to the cause, high-EQ people, and user goals vs. company goals.

In this episode, we cover:

• Growing up in Silicon Valley (00:53)
• Long-lasting marriages (07:26)
• Jim’s first company, eTour (13:18)
• The Web 1.0 boom (17:33)
• Joining Ask.com & partnering with Google (20:40)
• Rejuvenating a brand (24:11)
• Back in the mud with Clicker (28:05)
• CBS All Access (34:02)
• 14 months at Tinder (37:25)
• What people get wrong about Jim (39:05)
• Becoming the CEO of Yahoo (42:45)
• How Jim hires great teams (49:54)
• Top priorities and Yahoo’s verticals (55:10)
• First principles & making decisions (01:02:26)
• Hiring & what “grit” means to Jim (01:05:02)

Links:

• Connect with Jim
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

In this special episode of Grit, Joubin looks back at what five past guests had to say about building a sales operation inside rapidly-growing companies:

• Intro (00:30)
• Stripe’s Mike Clayville on first principles & “tornado companies” (01:02)
• Former Paypal VP Marcy Campbell on establishing a successful sales motion (11:37)
• LinkedIn COO Dan Shapero on effective sales leadership during hypergrowth (20:16) 
• Herbold Consulting CEO Jim Herbold on “unicorn meat” (32:32)
• CRO Chris Degnan on the pivotal moments in Snowflake’s history (50:02)

Links:

• Connect with the guests
  • Mike’s LinkedIn
  • Marcy’s LinkedIn
  • Dan’s LinkedIn
  • Jim’s LinkedIn
  • Chris’ LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Yan-David Erlich, COO and CRO of Weights & Biases

After starting four companies, Yan-David Erlich had found happiness and success as a GP in Coatue’s venture fund — but then, after investing in the AI developer platform Weights & Biases, he realized the time was right to get back into operating. That was not a decision he made lightly, consulting with his wife before he became the startup’s COO. The challenges of entrepreneurship get easier, he explains, when you have a supportive partner in your corner. That’s why he believes he could roll with the loss of his home or his job or his money — but not her. 

In this episode, Yan-David and Joubin discuss Snowflake vs. Amazon, Slack vs. Microsoft Teams, Donald Trump, charting your own destiny, regret minimization, alternate selves, Michael Dearing, chips on your shoulder, Google Glass, industrial sales, the AI & ML window, hairball problems, fixing giant messes, and fighting a bear.

In this episode, we cover:

• The advantage of speed (01:06)
• Competing against a massive business (05:24)
• Idiocy and secrets (09:45)
• Yan-David’s past companies (12:34)
• His philosophy on life (17:17)
• Leaving LinkedIn (22:14)
• Anxiety and regret (26:27)
• The failure of Happiness Engines (34:43)
• Why Yan-David left Parsable after five years (38:05)
• Coatue’s venture fund (46:13)
• Weights & Biases and the ML moment (48:08)
• Why AI is still underhyped (51:05)
• From investor to board member to COO to CRO (55:20)
• Being a good lieutenant (58:51)
• The hidden costs of operating (01:01:33)
• Successful entrepreneurs and happy relationships (01:05:55)
• Who Weights & Biases is hiring & what “grit” means to Yan-David (01:10:26)

Links:

• Connect with Yan-David
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Nick Mehta, CEO of Gainsight

Gainsight CEO Nick Mehta describes himself as “the person who goes all in, on whatever.” So when he had a personally difficult year, he didn’t just go to therapy — he also talked to a professional coach, and read about religion, and experimented with (legal) ketamine therapy. All of that led to him “better understanding the inner self ... [and] helping to find ways to suppress the exterior.” In other words, even though Gainsight’s culture is suffused with Nick’s values, he is consciously trying to unpack a “new version of myself” that is greater than his company: “There’s a lot more to me than I realized,” he says.

In this episode, Nick and Joubin discuss Mike Moritz, golf clubs, Don Valentine, eclectic fashion, loneliness, Enneagram types, setting the tone, moments of vulnerability, Vista Equity Partners, talking to customers, Jack Dorsey, building others’ brands, startups as kids, Marc Benioff, and the ship of Theseus.

In this episode, we cover:

• The mystique of Sand Hill Road (00:58)
• Un-measurable marketing (05:07) 
• Launching Chipshot.com (09:17)
• I-banking culture and fitting in (13:14)
• Getting help after a rough year (19:48)
• Immigrant achievers and the meaning of work (21:32)
• Fueling success and belief in institutions (24:44)
• Winning while being human-first (30:19)
• Founder-defined values and culture (3 5:41)
• What happened to Chipshot? (40:46)
• Empathy for all entrepreneurs (44:11)
• Growing & selling LiveOffice (46:03)
• The new Nick (48:53)
• Selling Gainsight for $1.1 billion (51:56)
• Coda and time management (55:20)
• Ghost notes (59:01)
• When the spotlight goes away (01:02:17)
• Philosophy and science books (01:05:45)
• Deleting work apps every weekend (01:09:23)
• Who Gainsight is hiring and what “grit” means to Nick (01:10:26)

Links:

• Connect with Nick
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Coda
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Manny Medina, CEO of Outreach

In its Seattle headquarters, the sales execution platform Outreach has at least one wall covered in AI diagrams and architectural flows. CEO Manny Medina says that’s because he believes “there’s no world in which reps don’t have an assistant the way that coders do.” The AI revolution has also given Manny — who got his M.A. in computer science at Penn — a chance to be more hands-on than your average CEO of a $4 billion company. “I try not to think myself as a CEO,” he says. “I try to think myself as a team member that is doing something useful.”

In this episode, Manny and Joubin discuss northern New Jersey, American opportunity, going to the future, crossing the chasm, jujitsu, Tony Robbins, winning on your own terms, shifting motivations, inspiration through transparency, Moonwalking with Einstein, Lululemon, hands-on CEOs, and “been there, done that.”

In this episode, we cover:

• Leaving Ecuador for the US (02:21)
• Would Manny do it all again? (07:45)
• Finding product-market fit (10:09) 
• Scaling, scarcity, and stability (14:41)
• AI-assisted sales reps (18:59)
• Winner takes most (24:20)
• Placing long-term bets (26:42)
• Imposter syndrome and chips on your shoulder (32:59)
• “Ten million or die” (35:15)
• Irrational forces (42:33)
• Manny’s weekly internal emails (44:17)
• Memorizing names and making sacrifices (48:00)
• Personal and professional goals (52:23)
• “All the other jobs were taken” (56:53)
• Do-overs (01:00:18)
• Bad and good startup advice (01:03:24)
• Who Outreach is hiring and what “grit” means to Manny (01:05:58)

Links:

• Connect with Manny
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Aaron Levie, CEO of Box, and Mamoon Hamid, partner at Kleiner Perkins

When he was a newly minted venture capitalist at USVP, Mamoon Hamid got a tip that he should meet a young entrepreneur named Aaron Levie, and fought for the right to invest in his cloud storage startup, Box. For years after that initial investment, the two men say, Box’s fate was precarious: “We could have died any day,” Mamoon says, and Aaron recalled several times he had to be talked “down from a ledge.” Today, they tell us how Box established itself as “open for business” — a concept Mamoon hounded Aaron with in the early years — and grew into success.

In this episode, Aaron, Mamoon, and Joubin discuss Box socks, authenticity at work, Josh Stein, living in the office, over-diligence, Google Platypus, the 2008 crash, nostalgia, everything is personal, the ten-person test, burnout, Dan Levin, ChatGPT, Parker Conrad, and Silicon Valley as “technology town.” 

In this episode, we cover:

• “Make mom proud, unless she’s evil” (01:59)
• How Mamoon and Aaron met (04:38)
• Mamoon’s first investment in Box (11:15) 
• Pausing the term sheet (16:08)
• “We could have died any day” (19:01)
• What is company-building? (23:23)
• Open For Business (25:27)
• Getting to cash flow positive (27:52) 
• Slow growth with no burn vs. fast growth, high burn (31:15)
• Tough feedback (34:31)
• Overcoming challenges around the Box IPO (36:31) 
• Growing as CEO (38:35) 
• The Apple Vision Pro and AI (44:15)
• Investing in cutting-edge companies (49:15)
• Using AI to re-juice growth (51:48)
• How Aaron educates himself (54:22)
• Business as a sport (57:14)
• Who Box is hiring and what “grit” means to Aaron (01:00:44)

Links:

• Connect with Aaron
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Mamoon
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Carl Eschenbach, co-CEO of Workday

When Carl Eschenbach decided to leave VMWare after more than 14 years as COO, no one believed it: Not chairman Joe Tucci, not CEO Pat Gelsinger, and maybe not Carl himself. But he needed a more predictable work-life balance to help raise his teenage children. For the next seven years, he served as a partner at Sequoia Capital. And every day, he thought — and to his wife’s chagrin, talked — about going back: “It was always on the back of my mind,” he says. After the kids were out of the house, in late 2022, he jumped back into operating and became co-CEO of Workday. “It’s what I love to do,” he says. “I feel like I’ve been called to do it.”

In this episode, Carl and Joubin discuss jumping rope, Mike Clayville, the Flowbee, focusing on the family, wrestling, commuting cross-country, servant leadership, Sequoia Capital, Aneel Bhusri, co-CEOs, and Palo Alto Networks.

In this episode, we cover:

• Working on Sand Hill Road (00:55)
• Carl’s workout routine (03:15)
• Staying humble and grounded (08:04)
• Carl’s family and dinner table conversation (11:41)
• Drive and ambition (16:08)
• College vs. trade school (19:53)
• 3Com, Inktomi, and EMC (24:33)
• Deciding to join VMware (28:02)
• Virtualizing the data center (31:48)
• The pressure of an incredible ride (35:54)
• The infamous CFO story (40:14)
• Eyeing the CEO job (46:00)
• Carl’s one “big regret” (47:40)
• Refocusing after a tragedy (52:05)
• A left turn into venture (55:37)
• The “itch” to go back to operating (01:00:17)
• Joining the Workday board (01:04:37)
• Building an enduring business (01:07:15)
• “End[ing] my career in an operating role” (01:09:09)
• Transitioning out of venture (01:15:56)
• Who Workday is hiring and what “grit” means to Carl (01:18:01)

Links:

• Connect with Carl
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Bob Muglia, “The Datapreneurs” Co-Author and Former Snowflake CEO

Longtime Microsoft executive and former Snowflake CEO Bob Muglia was done with his book about using data to drive the digital economy — and then ChatGPT came out. “The timeline for artificial intelligence moved in by 50 years in my head,” he recalls. Bob then told his co-author Steve Hamm that they needed to update “The Datapreneurs” to focus more on AI. “For the first time, we have intelligence in a computer,” he says. “English has become the primary programming interface of 2023!”

In this episode, Bob and Joubin discuss weekly meetings, Amazon’s values, the tech industry’s Yoda, antitrust lawsuits, the media and Bill Gates, tangling with Andy Jassy, gold rush times, FoundationDB, executive coaches, firing people faster, leaders vs. managers, deepfakes, and the zeroth law of robotics.

In this episode, we cover:

• Bob’s post-Snowflake career (00:57) 
• How he advises startup CEOs (04:12) 
• Getting fired by Steve Ballmer, twice (09:36) 
• Why didn’t he quit? (14:09)
• Satya Nadella (16:09)
• Immigrant families and early jobs (17:21)
• United States v. Microsoft Corp. (21:14)
• “It may be shit, but it’s compliant shit” (25:26) 
• Antitrust is not about the law (29:18) 
• Rose-colored memories (33:01)
• Competing with Microsoft and Amazon (34:41)
• Two years at Juniper (37:45)
• Transitioning into Snowflake (39:38)
• Earning credibility (42:32)
• Chris Degnan, Snowflake’s first sales rep (45:07)
• Near-death experiences (50:05)
• Finding traction & taking off (55:33)
• Surprising challenges (01:00:55)
• Fired, again (01:02:16)
• Tough feedback (01:07:01)
• “The Datapreneurs” and the AI acceleration (01:09:19)
• Optimism about the future (01:13:36)
• The Terminator and Isaac Asimov (01:17:48)

Links:

• Connect with Bob
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Buy “The Datapreneurs”
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Guest: Noam Bardin, founder of Post News

One of the “aha” moments that could sway a dubious Waze user, recalls former CEO Noam Bardin, was navigating around “all those idiots sitting in traffic... and you’re like, ‘I’m a genius.’” Now, at the social news app Post, Noam says the “aha” is avoiding partisan gridlock and paywalls. Social incumbents boost engagement by making users angry, while Post just wants you to read. “If we can remove friction and give you the right articles at the right time, so you feel smarter when you walk away,” he says, “that’s the aha moment.”

In this episode, Noam and Joubin discuss stories vs. execution, ROFRs, culture clash, timing an acquisition, corporate tags, fear of going bigger, joining big companies, mobile app retention, big tech monopolies, competing against Foursquare, and not optimizing for “culture warriors.”

In this episode, we cover:

• Putting your opinions out there (01:15)
• Waze almost sold to Facebook (06:10)
• Getting in the room with Google (13:04)
• How the first Google deal fell apart (15:10)
• Back to Facebook — briefly (17:15)
• The news begins to leak, and Google returns (20:26)
• Grinding for five years at a startup (23:57)
• “Hockey sticks” are never smooth (28:32)
• The personal impact of volatility (31:37)
• “Everything is a mess in startups” (34:38)
• The worst day of Noam’s life (38:22)
• How Waze started, and how Noam joined (42:22)
• The failure of Intercast Networks (45:07)
• Brave faces and “corp-speak” (48:33)
• Integrating into Google’s culture (53:13)
• No constraints and too much money (01:01:08)
• Defining metrics that matter (01:04:11)
• Maps and social (01:06:46)
• Silicon Valley’s worst invention: “Pivoting” (01:09:56)
• The social news problem Post solves (01:14:51)
• Misinformation and authoritarianism (01:18:42)
• Post’s microtransactions (01:21:08)
• Being misunderstood and the “aha” moment (01:23:58)
• Who Post is hiring and what “grit” means to Noam (01:27:09)

Links:

• Connect with Noam
  • Twitter
  • Post
  • LinkedIn
• Connect with Joubin
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Email: [email protected] 
• Learn more about Kleiner Perkins
• This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm