Historians Writing History: Drafting the Past

Episode 100! I'm thrilled to welcome historian of science Dr. Jessica Riskin.

Jessica is the Frances and Charles Field Professor of History at Stanford University. She's the author of three books and has edited two additional collections. She has also written extensively for academic journals and has published some highly entertaining book reviews and essays for the New York Review of Books and the Los Angeles Review of Books.

Her newest book, and her first with a trade press, is The Power of Life: The Invention of Biology and the Revolutionary Science of Jean-Baptiste Lamarck. It's a biography of French naturalist Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, whose early theories of evolution have been discredited and ignored. But in this book, Jessica traces his life, restores his thinking, and shows not only that we have Lamarck all wrong, but also what we lose when we turn away from his expansive approach to science. It's an interesting subject, but in Jessica's hands it transforms into a deeply engaging, witty, surprising, and fascinating read. I loved learning more about how her love of novels helps her bring the past to life, how transformative it has been to work with great editors, and how she manages to write a book that is both a delightful read and a persuasive argument.

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Mentioned in this episode:

• Jessica Riskin's faculty website
• Jessica Riskin, The Power of Life: The Invention of Biology and the Revolutionary Science of Jean-Baptiste Lamarck
• Jessica Riskin, The Restless Clock: A History of the Centuries-Long Argument over What Makes Living Things Tick
• Jessica Riskin, Science in the Age of Sensibility: The Sentimental Empiricists of the French Enlightenment
• Riskin at the The New York Review of Books
• Riskin at Los Angeles Review of Books
• FriXion Erasable Markers
• Natalie Zemon Davis, The Return of Martin Guerre
• Peter Elbow, Writing with Power: Techniques for Mastering the Writing Process
• Ken Alder, The Measure of All Things: The Seven-Year Odyssey and Hidden Error That Transformed the World
• Carlo Ginzburg, The Cheese and the Worms

Is it possible to write a new history of Lewis and Clark (and get anyone to read it)? If you're Craig Fehrman, the answer is a definite yes! In today's episode, Craig joins Kate Carpenter to talk about his new book, This Vast Enterprise: A New History of Lewis & Clark.

Craig is a journalist and historian who lives in Indiana, where he focuses on writing and occasional adjunct teaching at Indiana University. His first book was Author in Chief: The Untold Story of Our Presidents and the Books They Wrote. He has published articles and reviews in venues like Deadspin, the New York Times Book Review, and Boston Globe.

In his new book, This Vast Enterprise, Craig retells the story of the Lewis and Clark expedition through the rotating perspectives of several members of the expedition, as well as some of the people they encountered along the way. The result is a nuanced, fresh version of this history that decenters the expedition leaders and introduces some new sources and interpretations! In the interview, We get into how Craig came upon those sources and how what he found allowed him to reinterpret other sources, like Lewis and Clark's expedition diaries. We also talked about his interviews with contemporary Native sources, how a creative constraint actually led to new insights, his approach to writing history as a page-turner, and much more.

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Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Craig's website
• Craig Fehrman, This Vast Enterprise: A New History of Lewis & Clark
• Craig Fehrman, Author in Chief: The Untold Story of Our Presidents and the Books They Wrote
• Craig Fehrman, editor, The Best Presidential Writing: From 1789 to the Present
• Stephen E. Ambrose, Undaunted Courage: Meriwether Lewis, Thomas Jefferson, and the Opening of the American West
• Ken Burns documentary Lewis & Clark: The Journey of the Corps of Discovery
• Ned Blackhawk, The Rediscovery of America: Native Peoples and the Unmaking of U.S. History and Violence Over the Land: Indians and Empires in the Early American West
• Elizabeth Fenn, Encounters at the Heart of the World: A History of the Mandan People and Pox Americana: The Great Smallpox Epidemic of 1775-82
• We Proceeded On journal from the Lewis & Clark Trail Alliance
• Isabel Wilkerson, The Warmth of Other Sons: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration
• Megan Kate Nelson, The Three-Cornered War: The Union, the Confederacy, and Native Peoples in the Fight for the West (Listen to Megan in DTP episode 1 and episode 94)
• Claire Keegan
• Carys Davies
• Rachel Aviv
• Lillian Ross
• Jill Lepore
• Louis Menand

David Perry returns to talk with Kate about his new book, The Public Scholar: A Practical Handbook. If you've ever been curious about writing essays or op-eds, but are unsure where to get started, David's book should answer pretty much any question you can dream up. I think this book is hugely helpful, and I was glad to hear more from David about why he wrote it—and to get answers to a few more burning questions about public scholarship (or, you know, just a pep talk).

When David first joined me on Drafting the Past during the show's first season in 2022, we talked about The Bright Ages: A New History of Europe that he had just published with co-writer Matthew Gabriele. I highly recommend that you go back and listen to that episode, Episode 10. It's especially inspiring for anyone interested in co-writing or who does not find writing to come to them naturally. Since that conversation, David and Matthew have co-authored a second book called Oathbreakers: The War of Brothers That Shattered an Empire and Made Medieval Europe. And David has continued to write prolifically for the public. He has also been enthusiastic about giving other scholars the tools to do the same, and he started offering a workshop on public writing for university faculty and graduate students. Now, he's bringing that advice to all of us in a short, essential book called The Public Scholar: A Practical Handbook.

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

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Mentioned in this episode:

• David's website
• David M. Perry, The Public Scholar: A Practical Handbook
• Matthew Gabriele and David M. Perry, Oathbreakers: The War of Brothers That Shattered an Empire and Made Medieval Europe
• Matthew Gabriele and David M. Perry, The Bright Ages: A New History of Europe
• Matthew and David's newsletter, Modern Medieval
• Drafting the Past Episode 10: David M. Perry Writes Out Loud
• David's Star Tribune column about Irish music: "This St. Patrick's Day, don't forget Irish music's anti-fascist roots"
• The Instagram reel promoting his column that we talked about at the start of the episode
• Tressie McMillan Cottom
• Irina Dumitrescu

Host Kate Carpenter is joined by drug historian Dr. Emily Dufton to talk about researching and writing Emily's newest book, Addiction, Inc.: Medication-Assisted Treatment and America's Forgotten War on Drugs.

Emily holds a PhD in American studies and works full-time as a writer. Her first book was Grass Roots: The Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana in America. Thanks to her expertise in drug history, she regularly serves as a commentator on cannabis history and news, and she also writes essays and op eds for public outlets.

Addiction, Inc. tells the history of medication-assisted treatment for illicit drug addiction, beginning with its emergence during President Richard Nixon's war on drugs in the 1970s as a radical approach to public health. From there she traces the controversies, missed opportunities, and privatization that have scrambled access to what is considered the gold standard of addiction treatment, even as America wrestles with an opioid overdose epidemic. Emily is the recipient of multiple awards that supported the book's creation, including a J. Anthony Lukas Works-in-Progress Award, a Robert B. Silvers Grant, and a Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant.

We spoke about the process of applying for those awards and why writers should try for grants, the home disaster that derailed the beginnings of this project, and how she balances feedback with her own vision for her book—even when there is A LOT of feedback. You'll also hear about whether she finds it lonely to write outside of an institution, and why she suggests that more historians pick up the phone and call their sources.

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

Sign up for the Drafting the Past newsletter for updates on the show and more.

Mentioned in this episode

• Emily Dufton's website
• Emily Dufton, Addiction, Inc: Medication-Assisted Treatment and America's Forgotten War on Drugs
• Emily Dufton, Grass Roots: The Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana in America
• J. Anthony Lukas Prize
• Robert B. Silvers Foundation Works-in-Progress grants
• Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant Pauline Kael's work at the New Yorker

In this episode, host Kate Carpenter is joined by Dr. Daniel Neep to talk about his new book, Syria: A Modern History.

Daniel is a non-resident fellow at the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University and is currently senior editor at the Arab Center Washington DC, a think tank focused on the relationship between the Arab world and the US. Previously, he has worked as a faculty member, researcher, and leader at universities, NGOs, and research centers as he seeks to bridge academic work and institution building. He is the author of a previous book on Syria, as well as many articles and analyses in a wide variety of venues. His new book tells the history of Syria from the 1800s through the fall of the Assad regime in December 2024, focusing on how the Syrian people themselves have understood and advocated for their country's politics, economic relationships and social structures.

Kate and Daniel talked about how his many years steeped in research about the Arab world and Syria went into this book, and how he thought about its structure and purpose. We also talked about some of the quirks of publishing a book in both the US and the UK, including how this one book has two slightly different titles, and about what it's like to be writing and revising a book when the ending is changing in real time.

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

Sign up for the Drafting the Past newsletter for updates on the show and more.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Daniel Neep's website
• Daniel Neep, Syria: A Modern History (US version)
• Daniel Neep, A Modern History of Syria (UK version)
• Daniel Neep, Occupying Syria Under the French Mandate
• Arab Center Washington D.C.
• Timothy Mitchell, Colonizing Egypt
• Timothy Mitchell, Rule of Experts: Egypt, Techno-Politics, Modernity
• Michael Mann, The Sources of Social Power, Vol. 1

In this episode, Kate is joined by Dr. John Garrison Marks, whose new book is Thy Will Be Done: George Washington's Legacy of Slavery and the Fight for American Memory. This is a fantastic book that takes a careful, and often surprising look, at how generations of Americans have remembered and forgotten George Washington's relationship to slavery and used that memory to bolster their own arguments.

John Garrison Marks is the vice president of research and engagement at the American Association for State and Local History, so he is steeped in the role of public history across the country. He is the author of a previous book, Black Freedom in the Age of Slavery, and co-editor of an anthology. John has written essays and op-eds for outlets including TIME and Smithsonian Magazine. Recently, his expertise on the memory of Washington's relationship to slavery became particularly relevant when the National Park Service removed an exhibit about the history of slavery at the President's House in Philadelphia, and John was ready to jump into the fray and offer vital historical context. I asked John about the relationship between his work with public historians and how he thinks about writing history, as well as how he manages to write while having a busy day job and a young family.

Note: Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links. If you purchase books through these links, Drafting the Past gets a small percentage at no additional cost to you. Thanks for supporting our guests and the podcast!

Mentioned in this episode:

• John Garrison Marks, Thy Will Be Done: George Washington's Legacy of Slavery and the Fight for American Memory
• John Garrison Marks, Black Freedom in the Age of Slavery: Race, Status, and Identity in the Urban Americas
• John's website
• American Association for State and Local History (AASLH)
• John Garrison Marks, "We've Never Agreed About George Washington and Slavery," TIME
• Write Now with Scrivener Episode 60: John Garrison Marks, Historian
• Mary V. Thompson, The Only Unavoidable Subject of Regret: George Washington, Slavery, and the Enslaved Community at Mount Vernon
• Bill Hader's excellent writing advice
• John Vaillant, Fire Weather: On the Front Lines of a Burning World
• David Grann, The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder
• Megan Greenwell, Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream Amanda Mull, "Do You Want a Boring Floor Lamp or an Ugly Floor Lamp?,"The Atlantic

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In this episode, Kate welcomes back episode 1 guest Dr. Megan Kate Nelson as the very first return guest on Drafting the Past! Megan is a historian and the author of five books, and a Pulitzer Prize finalist. In our first conversation, we talked about Megan's writing process, favorite writing advice, and more. But in this episode, we're going deeper! While we talk about Megan's new book, The Westerners: Mythmaking and Belonging on the American Frontier, she's sharing a look behind the scenes at the timeline of a trade press book, how she balances promoting one book and researching the next one, and even some of the behind-the-scenes drama. Plus, she let me take a look at the book's original proposal, and share FIVE failed proposals before she landed on a winner for her next book. This episode is a rare glimpse into the nitty gritty of publishing as a trade press historian, and you're going to get a ton out of it. Plus, stick around to the end—we have a little (okay, BIG) announcement to share!

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Note: Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links. When you buy books through these links, you not only support the authors, you also help to keep Drafting the Past going. Thank you!

Mentioned in this episode:

• Megan Kate Nelson, The Westerners: Mythmaking and Belonging on the American Frontier
• Megan Kate Nelson, Saving Yellowstone: Exploration and Preservation in Reconstruction America
• Megan Kate Nelson, The Three Cornered-War: The Union, the Confederacy, and Native Peoples in the Fight for the West
• Megan Kate Nelson, Ruin Nation: Destruction and the American Civil War
• Megan Kate Nelson, Trembling Earth: A Cultural History of the Okefenokee Swamp
• Drafting the Past Episode 1: Megan Kate Nelson Experiments with Structure
• Isabel Wilkerson, The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration

In this episode, I'm happy to welcome historian of religion Dr. Matthew Avery Sutton. Matt's newest book is called Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity, following the relationship between Christianity and the nation from the arrival of the first Europeans up to Donald Trump's second term in office. Matt is the author of three previous books, along with an edited collection and a documentary history, and he regularly writes about the history of Christianity in America for a general audience. We talked about how he thinks about all those different audiences and how he keeps writing so much despite many personal and professional responsibilities—including seven years as department chair.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Matthew Avery Sutton, Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity
• Matthew Avery Sutton, Double Crossed: The Missionaries Who Spied for the United States During the Second World War
• Matthew Avery Sutton, American Apocalypse: A History of Modern Evangelicalism
• Matthew Avery Sutton, Aimee Semple McPherson and the Resurrection of Christian America
• American Experience: Sister Aimee
• Jane Sherron De Hart, Ruth Bader Ginsburg: A Life
• Grant Wacker, Heaven Below: Early Pentecostals and American Culture
• David Hollinger
• Stephen King, On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft
• John le Carré
• Jill Lepore, These Truths: A History of the United States
• Matthew Avery Sutton, "The antichrist has long haunted American politics. Now it's rearing its head again," The Guardian

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

In this episode, host Kate Carpenter is joined by Dr. Rhae Lynn Barnes to talk about book Darkology: Blackface and the American Way of Entertainment. Rhae Lynn is an assistant professor of history at Princeton University. With meticulous research and piles of evidence, Darkology reveals the widespread and persistent use of amateur blackface minstrelsy across the United States from the Civil War through the early 2000s. Rhae Lynn is also the co-editor of three books, the founder of open-access teaching resource U.S. History Scene, and was featured in and served as an executive advisor for the PBS documentary series Reconstruction.

Researching and writing Darkology took a stunning amount of research, as well as a mental toll, and I'm grateful to Rhae Lynn for talking about how she grappled with all of it, the unusual challenges she faced when thinking about visuals for the book, and much more. Plus, she shares some excellent wisdom for how to keep going even when it seems too hard, or when you don't feel like you belong.

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Mentioned in this episode:

• Rhae Lynn Barnes, Darkology: Blackface and the American Way of Entertainment
• Rhae Lynn Barnes, Keri Leigh Merritt, and Yohuru Williams, eds., After Life: A Collective History of Loss and Redemption in Pandemic America
• Rhae Lynn Barnes and Catherine Clinton, eds., Roe v. Wade: Fifty Years After
• Rhae Lynn Barnes and Glenda Goodman, eds., American Contact: Objects of Intercultural Encounters and the Boundaries of Book History
• Rhae Lynn Barnes, "Yes, politicians wore blackface. It used to be all-American 'fun.'" The Washington Post
• Maya Angelou's 1992 commencement address at Spelman College, in which she tells her audience "bring your people with you"
• Sandra Cisneros, "I Hate the Iowa Writers Workshop"

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.

Historian and writer Emily Lieb's professional history is a fascinating one, from crafting textbooks for kids to leaving a job as a professor to become a full-time writer. She taught history and urban studies at Seattle University for more than a decade. Now, in addition to her work as a historian, she also works for the Derfner & Sons writing agency.

Her first book came out in 2025 after many years of research, writing and revision. It's called Road to Nowhere: How a Highway Map Wrecked Baltimore, and it tells the story of a plan to build an expressway through Black, middle-class community in Baltimore, and how even though the road was never built, the plan paved the way for the destruction of a vibrant neighborhood. It's a history that echoes similar ones in cities across the United States, and Emily uses it to tell a fascinating but frustrating, deeply human story about racial inequality and the resistance of determined residents. Emily had a clear vision of how she wanted to tell this history, right down to the kind of book it should be, and you'll learn a lot in this interview from how she got there and her frank approach to writing and editing.

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Mentioned in this episode:

Emily Lieb, Road to Nowhere: How a Highway Map Wrecked Baltimore

Derfner & Sons

Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird, the origin of the phrase "shitty first drafts"

Andrew Hartman also praised editor Tim Mennel in episode 69

Calvin Trillin, "Thoughts Brought On By Prolonged Exposure to Exposed Brick"

Note that bookshop.org links are affiliate links that generate a small commission to support the show if you purchase books using these links.