This week, we are thrilled to welcome back Terryl Givens—one of our all-time favorite guests and collaborators and someone we always have a running list of topics for. This time, we’re finally diving deep into the topic of agency and free will: it’s something that has come up in many of our past conversations but never had its own dedicated discussion. 

Terryl’s new book, Agency, is part of the Maxwell Institute’s Doctrine & Covenants theological series, and it explores some of the most profound and challenging questions about what it truly means to have agency. For centuries, theologians and philosophers have debated whether free will truly exists or if what we call agency is merely an illusion— our choices predetermined by the unfolding of the universe, or so shaped by our biology and past that we don't have real choice. Terryl’s work in this book finds that Mormonism has some compelling and unique insights on that central question, and explores some others: what role does community and authority play in expanding—or limiting—our agency? And how do we navigate the tension between obedience and authentic personal choice?

In this conversation, we explore the dangers of turning scripture or prophets into idols, how our perception of God can sometimes become so skewed that it’s actually a “false God,” and why Terryl doesn’t believe that we’ll ever be judged based on our beliefs alone. We also get into some fascinating intersections between agency, neuropsychology, philosophy, and even Darwinian evolution.

This discussion left us with so much to think about, and we hope it does the same for you. So with that, let’s dive in!

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