LessWrong (Curated & Popular)

“How Well Does RL Scale?” by Toby_Ord


Listen Later

This is the latest in a series of essays on AI Scaling.
You can find the others on my site.

Summary: RL-training for LLMs scales surprisingly poorly. Most of its gains are from allowing LLMs to productively use longer chains of thought, allowing them to think longer about a problem. There is some improvement for a fixed length of answer, but not enough to drive AI progress. Given the scaling up of pre-training compute also stalled, we'll see less AI progress via compute scaling than you might have thought, and more of it will come from inference scaling (which has different effects on the world). That lengthens timelines and affects strategies for AI governance and safety.



The current era of improving AI capabilities using reinforcement learning (from verifiable rewards) involves two key types of scaling:

  1. Scaling the amount of compute used for RL during training
  2. Scaling [...]


---

Outline:

(09:46) How do these compare to pre-training scaling?

(14:16) Conclusion

---

First published:
October 22nd, 2025

Source:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xpj6KhDM9bJybdnEe/how-well-does-rl-scale

---



Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.

---

Images from the article:

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

LessWrong (Curated & Popular)By LessWrong

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

12 ratings


More shows like LessWrong (Curated & Popular)

View all
Macro Voices by Hedge Fund Manager Erik Townsend

Macro Voices

3,068 Listeners

Odd Lots by Bloomberg

Odd Lots

1,936 Listeners

EconTalk by Russ Roberts

EconTalk

4,263 Listeners

Conversations with Tyler by Mercatus Center at George Mason University

Conversations with Tyler

2,453 Listeners

Philosophy Bites by Edmonds and Warburton

Philosophy Bites

1,546 Listeners

ChinaTalk by Jordan Schneider

ChinaTalk

289 Listeners

ManifoldOne by Steve Hsu

ManifoldOne

93 Listeners

Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST) by Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

95 Listeners

Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

Dwarkesh Podcast

511 Listeners

Clearer Thinking with Spencer Greenberg by Spencer Greenberg

Clearer Thinking with Spencer Greenberg

138 Listeners

Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning by Razib Khan

Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning

208 Listeners

"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg by Turpentine

"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg

152 Listeners

Money Stuff: The Podcast by Bloomberg

Money Stuff: The Podcast

394 Listeners

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11) by Patrick McKenzie

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)

134 Listeners

The Marginal Revolution Podcast by Mercatus Center at George Mason University

The Marginal Revolution Podcast

95 Listeners