On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid, practical advice for Chief People Officers navigating their critical first 90 days, featuring real-world insights on building stakeholder trust, executing quick wins, and establishing strategic organizational influence.

Support our Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:13) Three Core Goals for New CPOs

(01:41) Common Fail States to Avoid

(02:03) Over-Communicating with Your CEO

(02:23) Building Executive Relationships Beyond One-on-Ones

(02:58) Getting to the Ground Floor: The Modern Executive Approach

(03:19) The Colleen McCreary Method: 100 One-on-Ones in 90 Days

(04:26) Quick Wins and Board Relationship Strategy

(04:44) Four-Pillar Framework in Action

(05:34) Pre-Start Transparency: Setting Expectations Early

(06:40) The Four Pillars: Listen, Execute, Strategize, Build

(08:18) The Brutal Reality: 3X Speed for Three Months

(09:15) Sprint vs Marathon: Managing Energy and Family Expectations

(09:58) Reframing “S**t Shows” as Solvable Problems

(11:22) The Critical Importance of In-Person Time

(12:13) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful

(15:22) Building on Company Strengths vs Starting from Scratch

(16:31) Team Building Strategy: Know Before You Walk In

(17:47) Making “Unnatural” Efforts for Face-Time

(18:33) Build Your Scaffolding or Die: The Team Priority

(20:14) Ditch HR Speak: Talking Business, Not Corporate Vernacular

(21:47) CEO Shadowing: What It Really Means

(23:00) Real Partnership: Daily Communication and Quick Feedback Loops

(23:59) Sponsor: Metaview

(25:18) The Bait-and-Switch Problem in Executive Hiring

(27:10) Market Reality: Nine-Month Average Tenure Crisis

(29:21) Board Relationships and Air Cover Strategy

(30:10) Building Your Narrative: Board Meeting Preparation

(31:41) Documentation Strategy: Journaling and Whiteboarding

(32:09) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan talks to Immigration attorney Nicole Gunara (Manifest Law) who analyzes the new $100,000 H-1B policy that sparked rapid industry adaptation across Silicon Valley, breaking down how this strategic shift creates different advantages for big tech versus startups while driving companies to explore innovative alternative visa pathways.

Support our Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.

KEEP UP WITH NICOLE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nicole: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngunara10/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Manifest Law: https://manifestlaw.com/

Gary Tan’s LinkedIn post: A $100K H1B fee won't bother big tech…

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:51) What Happened Friday Night: The $100K H-1B Bombshell

(02:53) Monday Reality Check: What We Actually Know

(04:16) Clear vs. Unclear: Exemptions and Renewal Definitions

(07:49) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful

(10:58) Crisis Response Strategy: Audit, Pause, and Pivot

(15:56) The Alphabet Soup: Alternative Visa Pathways

(21:19) Sponsor: Metaview

(23:08) The O-1 Opportunity: 94.5% Approval Rates Explained

(24:43) The Startup Dilemma: Gary Tan vs. Big Tech Advantage

(28:57) Strategic or Chaotic? The Department of Labor Clue

(30:13) America's STEM Pipeline Problem: The Real Policy Driver

(32:21) Wrap

Returning guest Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor) talk about AI workplace adoption, contrasting executives who avoid AI as time-consuming with his dedicated approach of treating AI as teammates, scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs, and transforming workflows.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.

KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Bryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:00) The Tinkerer vs. The Resisters

(03:00) The AI Bubble and Workplace Resistance

(05:00) Project Neighbor: Nextdoor's AI Initiative

(07:00) Case Study: Building AI Training with ChatGPT

(09:00) Mental Model Shift: AI as Teammate, Not Tool

(10:00) Scheduling One-on-Ones with Custom GPTs

(10:51) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful

(14:01) Executive Offsite Planning: AI in Action

(16:00) The Onboarding Problem: Context and Custom GPTs

(18:00) Compensation GPT: Domain-Specific AI Applications

(21:00) Output and Velocity: Gamma and Slide Creation

(22:43) Sponsor: Metaview

(24:37) Optional or Essential: The Future of AI Adoption

(26:00) The Mass Extinction Event for Knowledge Workers

(30:00) Creating Permission to Tinker

(32:00) Restructuring Executive Time for AI

(34:00) Corporate Lingo Roast

(44:08) Wrap

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six. Katelin argues HR professionals possess essential early-stage investing skills, and advocates their transition from support roles to decision-making positions through founder relationship-building strategies.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH KATELIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Katelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelinholloway/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Seven Seven Six: http://sevensevensix.com

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:27) How HR "Found" Katelin: The Accidental Career Path

(02:02) Pixar University: Learning from World-Class People Operations

(03:16) Meeting Alexis Ohanian: The Reddit Turnaround Story

(04:12) When Employees Refused to Wear Company Swag

(04:43) Why Hard Challenges Build Deeper Professional Bonds

(05:42) From Boardroom to Back Room: The VC Industry Problem

(07:24) Why Early-Stage Investing IS People Work

(08:52) The "Talent Partner" Problem: Wasted Potential in VC

(09:40) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(12:03) The Marc Andreessen Challenge: Selection vs. Support

(13:23) Platform Shifts Are Disrupting Venture Capital

(14:07) Product and People First: 776's Different Approach

(15:30) The Tactical Playbook: How to Break Into Venture

(15:49) Build Founder Relationships, Not VC Relationships

(16:22) The "How Can I Help?" Problem: Why Most VCs Fail Founders

(17:39) From Advisor to Angel: Getting Equity Without Cash

(18:28) The Golden Rule: Genuine Help Must Come First

(20:06) Ed Catmull's 5-Year Rule: Knowing When to Leap

(21:57) Why the Smartest People Never "Figure It Out"

(22:26) Closing: Building the Future of Venture Capital

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Iain Roberts, Airbnb's Global Head of Employee Experience and discuss his transition from IDEO designer to Airbnb's CHRO, exploring how design thinking principles reshape organizational structure, collaborative leadership, and workplace policies in opposition to traditional HR practices.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Iain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiain

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Airbnb: http://airbnb.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:08) "Everything Needs to be Designed" Philosophy

(02:48) Founder Mode: Leadership Through Collaboration

(05:50) The One Roadmap Strategy

(08:04) Prototyping Human Experiences

(12:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(14:42) Live and Work Anywhere: The Contrarian Bet

(18:12) Talent Strategy & Future of Work

(20:19) Wrap

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and CEO Metaview Siadhal Magos discuss the "Trough of Disillusionment" in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview 10x Recruiting Podcast - instead of recycled LinkedIn takes, you get contrarian insights from operators who've actually built elite talent machines. Instead of theory, you get real tactics and metrics from leaders at Vercel, Coinbase, and Uber.

Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast for more interviews like this one: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruiting

KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Siadhal: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/siadhal

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction: The Trough of Disillusionment

(01:41) The Dinner Revelation: "We Don't Do S**t"

(03:31) MIT Study: 95% of AI Pilots Are Failing

(04:19) "They're Doing It Wrong"

(07:02) The Human Curse of Instant Gratification

(08:51) Early Adopters vs. The Wait-and-See Crowd

(10:46) The Expectations Correction

(12:33) Sponsors: Metaview 10x Podcast | Planful

(14:25) The 30-Minute Rule: Small Wins Add Up

(15:23) Stop Scaring People

(16:59) Enterprise Reality Check

(19:11) The Four Buckets of AI Value

(21:16) Compensation Revolution

(24:06) The Future of Compensation Strategy

(28:46) The Great Adoption Debate

(32:29) Forward Deployed Engineers: The New Reality

(33:29) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with LinkedIn's VP of Talent Solutions Mark Lobosco to discuss their new "Hiring Assistant" - an agentic AI tool automating recruitment intake, sourcing, and messaging. Today, early adopters are saving 4+ hours per role, reviewing 62% fewer profiles, and seeing a 69% improvement in InMail acceptance rates. They also discuss how AI will affect recruiting roles, candidate requirements, and why LinkedIn profiles are about to get that much more critical.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH MARK, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Mark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklobosco/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:13) Intro

(01:24) Introducing Hiring Assistant: LinkedIn's First Agentic Product

(03:20) The ChatGPT Moment: Microsoft Partnership Changes Everything

(05:30) Inside the Intake Process: From Chat Interface to Candidate Search

(08:44) The Magic of Agentic Sourcing: "Go Get a Cup of Coffee"

(10:06) Purple Squirrel Syndrome: Faster Feedback Loops for Hiring Managers

(11:21) "I Love My Job and I Hate My Day": The Recruiter's Dilemma

(12:06) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(14:34) LinkedIn Profile Optimization: The New Resume Reality

(17:04) ATS Integration: The Next Generation of System Connect

(18:33) The Beginning of the End of Sourcing

(19:26) Charter Customer Success: Global Construction Company Results

(22:30) AI Tool Overwhelm: What Does This Replace?

(26:33) Product Access: Who Gets Hiring Assistant?

(27:00) The Open to Work Banner Debate

(28:12) Profile Pictures and Bias: Microsoft's Responsible AI Approach

(30:22) Wrap

Dear Heretics is back! Kelli and Nolan explore strategic board engagement for people leaders, covering presentation frameworks, relationship building, and navigating the delicate balance between board influence and CEO loyalty.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:48) Dear Heretics: The Board Question

(01:15) There Is No Best Practice

(02:38) Know Your Level (Don't Be 27 at DoorDash)

(03:49) If You Don't Set Strategy, Someone Else Will

(05:34) The Carta Framework: Show Value, Ask for Help

(06:30) Earn the Right Through Your CEO

(07:28) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(10:00) Board Presentation Framework

(11:00) Run It Like a Business: The QBR Method

(11:51) Building Board Relationships: Start Early

(13:00) They're Just F*cking People

(14:00) Board Members Are Your Career Funnel

(15:50) Start With One: The Relationship Strategy

(17:16) The Loyalty Warning: Team CEO, Period

(19:32) Wrap

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

DHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/

37signals: https://37signals.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(02:34) "I Want My Code to Sing": Why Programming Is Poetry

(04:35) How We Built a Company That Runs Itself

(07:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(08:34) The 40-Hour Work Week That Silicon Valley Hates

(11:05) The Remote Work Wars: Why Both Sides Are Wrong

(15:14) "No Politics at Work": The Two Weeks That Changed Everything

(17:00) How Wokeness Held Corporate America Hostage

(22:16) The Hardest Two Weeks of My Professional Life

(25:28) The DEI Deception: Why Equity Isn't Equality

(27:40) Why HR People Don't Suck (And Founders Need Them)

(31:00) Final Thoughts: People Go Crazy When Work Is Everything

(33:35) Wrap

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talked to Steve Cadigan, LinkedIn's first hired CHRO. Steve dissects LinkedIn's hypergrowth challenges, contrarian HR principles, and the fundamental shift from acquiring to developing talent internally.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Steve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cadigan

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINKS:

Metaview 10x Podcast: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruiting

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:50) LinkedIn's Identity Crisis: When Your Product Is Your Problem

(02:40) The Million-Dollar Question: "Why Would Anyone Want to Work Here?"

(04:35) HR's Only Two Products: Judgment and Credibility

(05:00) The Performance Review Rebellion

(05:16) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(07:21) Jeff Weiner's Intensity Philosophy: "I Live Off Chaos"

(08:10) The Vulnerability Breakthrough: How a CEO Learned to Inspire

(10:15) The Ownership Revolution: Why Leadership Teams Must Own HR

(11:15) Remote Work Reality Check: "We Don't Know Yet"

(12:00) Blitz Scaling Failures: Inheritors vs. Builders

(13:43) The Perfectionist's Trap: "Do You Hear All Those Balls Dropping?"

(14:20) Why He'll Never Return: The Six-Year-Old's Question That Changed Everything

(15:27) Future of Work: From Buy Talent to Build Talent Economy