One of our biggest episodes of this past year was with Zapier’s CPO Brandon Sammut, ICYMI or as a refresher, in this essetial Heretics 101 feature, he demonstrates AI agents transforming HR workflows: from automating bar raiser interview prep to performance evidence collection, while explaining their four-level AI fluency framework.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

LINKS:

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro(00:26) Why AI Fluency is Required for 100% of New Hires(02:00) The 4-Level AI Fluency Rubric: Capable to Transformational(03:38) Demo 1: Bar Raiser Interview Agent(04:33) 730 Employees, 10 VPs - Job Level Discipline(05:47) Agent Explains WHY It Chose Each Question(06:27) The Spectrum of AI Interview Approaches(08:18) Demo 2: Performance Review Evidence Collection(09:21) The Blob Notes Emoji: Triggering Evidence Collection(10:33) Don’t Let Perfect Be the Enemy of Good(11:21) Future Vision: AI Coach Idling in Slack(13:25) “It’s Like Steroids” - Not AI Overlords Taking Over(13:51) Sponsor: Metaview(15:41) Live Demo: Blob Notes in Action(18:13) Employee Choice vs Mandates: Marketing Over Requirements(19:27) Leadership Doing Real Work - Few Companies Have Real Use Cases(21:00) Demo 3: One-on-One Meeting Coach (Most Sophisticated Build)(23:20) Calculating Talk-to-Listen Ratios(24:40) Scaling HR Business Partners - Every Company’s Manager Problem(26:07) Implementation Choices: On-Demand vs Required(27:35) Transparency: What Data? Where Stored? Who Sees It?(28:44) The Iron Man Suit vs AI Overlords(28:56) Where to Find Brandon - LinkedIn(29:12) Wrap

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former Meta HR leader Cynthia Bazlamit (Baz) Shrauner talks about demoting herself twice for fulfillment over title. She also describes Facebook’s pandemic hiring frenzy that ballooned teams 10x, the subsequent brutal layoffs, and the effect of DEI resource groups on the company.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH BAZ, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Baz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

LINKS:

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:17) Intro

(01:06) The First Demotion Story: Getting Demoted at Facebook

(05:17) The Second Demotion: Hiring Christine Ellis & Doing It Again

(10:00) “Comparison is the Thief of Joy” - The Ego Struggle

(11:00) Sponsor: Metaview

(12:59) Meta’s Pandemic Hiring Spree: “We Were Sloppy”

(15:44) The Layoffs: Three Waves of RIFs, 8,000+ Cuts

(19:42) DEI & Resource Groups: From Fun to Corporate Chaos

(24:00) Closing

Bryan Power, who recently left Nextdoor after seven years, discusses his viral article on quitting properly, why exits define careers, manager failures, and the Growth by Design-Cursor acquisition’s implications.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Bryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

LINKS:

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction & Power Hour Returns

(00:55) Bryan’s Viral “How to Quit” Article

(04:00) Why Your Exit Becomes Your Entire Story

(06:00) Why Companies Don’t Teach Employees How to Leave

(09:00) The Loyalty Expectation Problem

(12:27) Sponsor: Metaview

(14:38) How Managers Screw Up Exits

(21:57) No Long Goodbyes: The Best Timing Advice

(24:13) What to Do When Someone Resigns

(27:30) Maintaining Relationships After You Leave

(29:26) Growth by Design Acquired by Cursor

(36:33) The State of the Recruiting Market

(40:00) AI Native Skills & The Future of Entry Level Hiring

(46:49) Cringey Corporate Lingo Game

(50:55) Wrap

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Couchbase CPO Fidelma Butler talks about modern L&D: building contextual leadership frameworks, meeting employees in workflows, activating peer teaching, and addressing career development’s promotion fixation.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:16) Intro(01:21) Building L&D from Scratch at Couchbase(02:45) Defining Good Leadership: The Three-Way Framework(05:04) Meeting People Where They Are: Escaping Theoretical Land(06:06) When Survey Results Disagree with CEO Priorities(07:35) Embedding L&D in the Fairway of the Job(08:19) Leaders Teaching Leaders: Why It Works(11:36) Coaching for Senior Leaders: Addressing the Intangibles(13:35) Hiring for Modern L&D: New Skills Required(14:25) The Career Development Problem: Everyone Wants It, Nobody Does It(16:30) Why Career Ladders Become Checkbox Exercises(19:01) The Ladders Dilemma and Being Transparent with Employees(20:10) Treating Employees Like Adults(20:59) Outro

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former co-founder and executive coach Adam Weber examines power dynamics and identity transformation following Amplify’s acquisition by 15Five, revealing insights on leadership evolution and maintaining authentic culture through organizational integration.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:57) Post-Acquisition Power Dynamics: The Humbling Moment

(03:00) HR’s Inflection Point: More Responsibility, Same Resources

(05:12) Top 5% HR Leaders: Show Courage and Speak the Language of Business

(06:59) What ‘Understanding the Business’ Really Means

(08:15) The Reality Check: HR’s Impossible Workload

(10:25) Sponsor: Metaview

(11:47) The Troubling Trend: AI Up, Leadership Development Down

(13:50) The Future of Management: NVIDIA’s Model and Investing in ICs

(18:18) Ruthless Experimentation and the Death of Best Practices

(20:00) Building Credibility: Sharing Both Wins and Losses

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Disruptive HR founder Lucy Adams dissects HR’s fundamental trust problem: why designing policies around your worst employees destroys organizational performance, and how to reimagine the business partner role.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(04:15) HR’s Fundamental Trust Problem & Designing for the Minority

(08:30) Sponsor: Metaview

(09:00) The Opportunity Cost of Distrust

(12:00) The HRBP Role: Why It’s Broken & How to Fix It

(15:30) What HR Leaders Are Talking About: DEI, AI & Merit

(19:53) Wrap

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli debate equity compensation philosophy: whether companies should extend stock options to all employees or reserve them for senior roles, weighing moral imperatives against investor dilution concerns and implementation complexity.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:07) Question about stock options for all employees

(01:48) Carta’s philosophy on making everyone an owner

(03:32) Moral case for giving equity to everyone

(05:07) Story about Carta’s employee refresh and Fred Wilson

(06:21) Challenge of educating employees on equity

(08:28) Pendo’s approach to equity education and round tables

(09:19) Setting expectations with $0 default value

(10:08) Sponsor - Metaview

(11:29) Cost of labor adjustments for equity across locations

(13:00) Administrative challenges of geo-based equity adjustments

(14:16) Employee communication and comparison issues

(16:10) Board tension over equity dilution decisions

(17:28) Attracting great talent requires competitive compensation

(18:06) Moral case and taxes of giving equity

(19:00) Importance of working with equity experts

(19:46) Closing thoughts on geo strategy and communication

(21:34) Wrap

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli tackle a question on navigating layoffs, revealing hard-won lessons from cutting deep, treating people humanely, and avoiding rookie RIF mistakes.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(03:22) Dear Heretics: What to Know Before Your First RIF

(05:10) The Carta Layoff Playbook: Cut Deep, Stay Humane, Do It Once

(09:19) Sponsor: Metaview

(10:41) Change Management: Why Before and After Matter Most

(15:00) Opt-In Severance and Tucking In Top Performers

(19:00) Designing for Trust Over Fear

(22:04) Leadership Accountability and the Golden Rule

(24:11) Wrap

On today’s HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dissect a viral LinkedIn post from an ex-Amazon director, exploring how inflated tech worker expectations clash with today’s brutal job market realities.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

__

For coaching and advising inquire at

https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:19) What Ex-Amazon Talent Deserves

(01:22) A Post Full of Assumptions

(02:41) The X Response: Out of Touch and Ego-Driven

(03:11) Sponsor: Metaview

(03:34) The Remote Work Reality: That Era Is Over

(04:39) The ChatGPT Turning Point: When Employment Fell Off a Cliff

(06:01) Why This LinkedIn Post Won’t Help Her Job Search

(06:29) The Coming Social Unrest and Displaced Tech Workers

(07:40) The Grinding Mindset

(09:09) When the Rules Changed Overnight

(10:31) The FAANG Halo Effect Is Dead

(11:55) The Quality of Life Fork: Ejecting from Tech

(13:00) Re-Underwriting Your Career in the New Reality

(14:20) Expectations Minus Reality Equals Happiness

(14:39) Hedging Your Bets: Diversify Before It’s Too Late

(15:52:) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan interview Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and 8-year Tesla veteran, about building HR’s strategic authority through data analytics, his automate-augment-human AI framework, and why he recruits economists and data scientists alongside traditional HR professionals.

Support our Sponsor:

Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.

* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.

* It only takes minutes to get up and running.

KEEP UP WITH ARNNON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Arnnon: linkedin.com/in/arnnongeshuri

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

-

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(0:00) Intro

(1:12) Three Key Lessons from Working with Elon Musk at Tesla

(3:36) Why Snowflake: Reinventing the People Function

(4:33) The Three-Pronged AI Framework: Automate, Augment, Human-Only

(12:02) Sponsor: Metaview

(19:45) Data Analytics as the Backbone of HR

(24:00) Building the Winning HR Team Portfolio

(27:08) Speed Through Imperfection: Fast Pilots and Iteration

(29:00) Wrap