“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

In this episode of HR Heretics, dive into the world of HashiCorp's HR innovation with Christine Centa, as she unveils the challenges of scaling a remote-first culture, navigating post-IPO transitions, and embracing AI in recruiting.

Discover with Kelli, Nolan and Christine how transparency, data-driven decisions, and a willingness to swear occasionally are reshaping modern tech workplaces.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:

https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

KEEP UP WITH CHRISTINE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Christine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-centa-0a809b7/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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LINKS:

Hashicorp:

https://www.hashicorp.com/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:59) Christine's Approach to HR and Compensation Trends

(03:40) Compensation and Equity in a Macroeconomic Environment

(07:12) The Importance of Recruiter Feedback

(07:35) Compensation and Internal Equity

(10:49) The Challenges of Changing Equity Plans

(11:30) The Trade-Offs of One-Year Grants

(12:27) Balancing Retention and Performance

(12:37) Stepped Approaches to Equity Grants

(15:57) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview

(18:02) The Importance of Transparency and Frequent Check-Ins

(18:52) Predicting Attrition and Hiring

(19:57) The Shift to Publicly Traded HashiCorp

(20:08) Scaling Processes and Maintaining Culture

(23:25) The Remote Work Debate

(31:34) Championing Successes and Addressing Concerns

(35:15) AI Strategy in HR and the Challenges of AI Deployment

(37:16) AI in Recruiting

(40:15) Candidate Adaptability to AI

(42:58) The Hidden Work of AI Deployment

(43:06) The Emerging Role of AI Specialists

(43:59) Wrap

This HR Heretics segment dives headfirst into the controversy surrounding Mr. Beast's leaked 36-page employee manual.

Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as as they unpack this viral document that's part survival guide, part corporate manifesto, with a dash of unapologetic ambition. Is it a brilliantly authentic approach to leadership or a recipe for workplace burnout?

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

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Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

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KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:18) Mr. Beast's leaked document

(03:58) Praising clarity in workplace expectations

(05:06) Discussing document accessibility 

(07:04) Authenticity in company culture

(09:10) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(11:13) Speculating on the document's origins

(13:02) Learning from negative experiences

(13:57) Authenticity in leadership

(16:13) The role of authenticity in attracting talent

(20:53) Balancing critique with appreciation for clarity

(21:42) Wrap

This episode of HR Heretics dives into the treacherous waters of giving feedback to friends without capsizing relationships.

Candid feedback or comfortable silence? Kelli and Nolan dissect the art of critiquing colleagues, challenging listeners to reconsider their approach to workplace honesty. Discover why your ego might be your own worst enemy, and learn how to transform awkward conversations into opportunities for growth.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

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Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

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BOOK MENTIONED:

"Ego is the Enemy" by Ryan Holiday:

https://www.amazon.com/Ego-Enemy-Ryan-Holiday/dp/1591847818

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:13) Intro

(01:14) A Real-World Example: Kelli's Feedback to Nolan

(02:27) Nolan's Response: The Importance of Inquiry

(04:56) Building Relationships Through Honest Communication

(06:36) Ego as a Barrier to Effective Feedback

(07:34) Challenging Perceptions: The Curious Leader

(08:46) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview

(10:50) Learning from Blunt Feedback: Nolan's Robot Story

(13:36) Using Humor to Ease Feedback Conversations

(14:31) Overcoming Perfectionism and Job Security Fears

(15:44) Reframing Feedback: Alternative Conversation Starters

(16:42) The Golden Rule of Feedback: Reciprocity in Communication

(17:58) Wrap

Amazon CEO Andy Jassy announces return to office policy, sparking debate on workplace culture and employee expectations in tech industry.

Will Amazon's RTO policy lead to increased employee turnover and a decline in morale? Listen as Kelli and Nolan explore the implications of these changes on workplace culture, employee expectations, and the broader business landscape.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

--

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

RELATED EPISODE:

Everyone’s Talking About Founder Mode

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS

(00:20) Andy Jassy's Letter on Culture

(01:50) Two Big Changes at Amazon

(03:00) Amazon's Employee Growth

(04:40) Innovation and In-Person Work

(05:10) Trade-offs of Remote Work

(06:00) Clarity in RTO Communications

(07:56) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(10:10) Exceptions to RTO Policy

(11:40) Top Performers and Exceptions

(13:20) Business Reality vs Expectations

Thinking of swiping right on a colleague? Find out with Kelli and Nolan if workplace romance is worth the potential awkward elevator rides and why mixing power and passion is a recipe for corporate disaster.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

--

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro

(01:16) Workplace Relationships

(03:01) Why Dating Within Reporting Chain is Improper

(05:17) Company Policies on Office Relationships

(09:15) Hypothetical: CEO Dating a Junior Employee

(09:33) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview

(13:31) Leaders Dating Employees from Different Departments

(16:18) Disclosing Relationships Between Colleagues

(18:29) Handling Unwanted Advances from Coworkers

(19:02) The One-Ask Rule

(20:04) Codifying Relationship Policies

(21:38) Wrap

You've got your daily team, the folks you work with every day, but then there's the executive squad. Patrick Lencioni’s "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" says that should be your true loyalty, but how does that translate into practice? Nolan and Kelli talk about navigating those tricky waters and avoiding toxic team vibes when the big boss throws down some tough choices.

Explore how HR pros can keep things from blowing up when the executive team calls the shots.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

RELATED BOOK:

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick M. Lencioni

https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:13) The "First Team" Concept

(01:09) Balancing Executive and Functional Teams

(03:07) Importance of Organizational Alignment

(05:58) Handling Team Disagreements with Executive Decisions

(07:58) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(10:02) Avoiding Toxic Leadership Behaviors

(11:44) Explaining Decisions to Teams

(13:52) Value of Transparency in Leadership

(15:11) Addressing Team Members' Concerns

(17:01) Managing Team Turnover and Succession Planning

(18:06) Preventing and Addressing Team Toxicity

(18:36) Wrap

Is context switching hurting your HR productivity? Kelli and Nolan talk about how leaders effectively navigate multiple roles and explore practical techniques for maximizing productivity in HR to build an adaptable team.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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RELATED:

Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:39) Challenges of Multiple Roles

(01:45) Navigating Different Relationships

(03:14) Setting Boundaries in Conversations

(04:49) Balancing Work and Personal Life

(05:36) Building a Strong, Adaptable Team

(07:52) Maximizing Meeting Effectiveness

(08:50) Prioritizing Tasks and Self-Care

(09:00) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(10:36) Reducing Digital Distractions

(11:33) Better Meetings

(12:14) The Power of Phone Calls

(14:33) Walking and Talking

(15:45) Wrap

US white-collar promotions are down 24% in Q1 2024, with a near 50% drop since 2022. What does this mean for employees and the job market?

Kelli and Nolan discuss causes, including pandemic effects and company restructuring, and talk about strategies for retention and career growth in a restructured, doer-focused workplaces.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

—

LINK:

Report: Promotions disappeared in Q1 2024

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction and Welcome

(00:16) Promotion Data Analysis

(01:15) Discussion on Promotion Trends

(03:49) Impact of Economic Changes on Promotions

(06:39) Future of Job Market and AI

(07:50) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(09:55) Continued Discussion on AI and Job Market

(16:27) Final Thoughts and Advice

(16:43) Wrap

Guissu Baier, a talent expert at General Catalyst who navigated the treacherous waters of startup equity compensation at Instacart, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich challenging conventional wisdom about refresh grants, and revealing that most companies lack a clear strategy.

Is it time to ditch the old-school "wait and see" approach and embrace a more performance-driven model?

Listen to Guissu, Kelli and Nolan as they offer insights into how to bridge the gap and foster collaboration between legal and HR teams.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:

https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

KEEP UP WITH GUISSU, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Guissu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guissu/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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LINKS:

General Catalyst:

https://www.generalcatalyst.com/

General Catalyst's Equity Refresh Survey:

https://www.generalcatalyst.com/perspectives/equity-refresh-survey-2024

Related Podcast:

How Big Should Your Org Grow

https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/how-big-should-your-org-grow

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:13) Key Findings of the Equity Refresh Survey

(06:03) Treating Equity as Carefully as Cash

(07:11) Vesting Schedules and Equity as a Long-Term Incentive

(08:23) The Debate on Vesting Cliffs in Refresh Grants

(09:46)The Logic and Challenges of Refresh Grants

(11:43) The Importance of Paying for Performance

(14:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(16:40) Challenges in Designing Equity Refresh Programs

(19:07) Different Approaches to Refresh Grants

(25:24) Retaining Top Performers

(28:51) Connecting New Hire and Refresh Ranges

(29:25) Equity Choice and Fairness

(30:49) Equity Trade-Offs and Innovation

(32:57) Collaboration between HR and Other Departments

(37:11) Facilitation as a Key Skill for HR Leaders

(40:28) Branding and Executive Involvement in Training

(43:30) The Reputation of Lawyers in the HR Profession

(44:54) Risk Calculus and Cultural Risk

(46:02) Communication as a Key to Problem Solving

(47:37) One-Way Door and Two-Way Door Decisions

(47:55) Wrap

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk about ‘Founder Mode’ a concept coined by YC founder Paul Graham in a recent essay — based on a talk by Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb. They discuss how founders feel gaslit by advice to delegate without micromanaging, and that the right approach IS a ruthlessly hands-on approach. The hosts explore the tension founders face between maintaining control and trusting hires, emphasizing the need for empathy. This is a sign that the paradigm is shifting, and all business leaders need to adjust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

—

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.

Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics

—

LINK:

Founder Mode https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) What is Founder Mode?

(03:59) Empathy for Founders

(04:54) The Role of Executives and Operators

(07:19) Blending Founder and Manager Mindsets

(09:56) Defensiveness and Personal Growth

(11:45) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(13:50) Kelli’s Best Take Ever?