“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

Do companies need HR? Kelli and Nolan discuss a recent episode of All In (the #1 Business podcast in the world) which championed a utopian vision of dismantling HR inside companies, a conversation ignited by Sequoia’s Shaun Maguire exposing Google’s promotion policies. Kelli and Nolan discuss how we even got to this point of frustration, what’s worth decentralizing, and what would fall apart without HR. What do you think?Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to subscribe: video episodes in your inbox: hrheretics.substack.com

This episode is brought to you by Attio.Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics 

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Emergency Segment

(00:49) Discussion on the All In Podcast's Take on HR

(01:05) Shaun Maguire’s Tweet About Google

(02:16) Debate on the Role and Future of HR

(08:56) Sponsor: Attio

(09:55) High Growth Companies Without HR?

(11:37) HR & Business Outcomes

(15:27) CTA

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GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co

In today’s segment, Kelli and Nolan discusses Shopify's recent announcement of their ‘~Mastery’ dual track system, rewarding management and craftspeople equally.

Kelli and Nolan also delve into topics such job leveling, advancement, and performance reviews and share personal stories from DoorDash and Yahoo.Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to subscribe: hrheretics.substack.com

--SPONSOR:This episode is brought to you by Attio, the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics 

--TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction to Shopify's New Mastery Approach

(01:09) Nolan and Kelli’s Initial Reactions

(2:13) The Concept of Six-Month Work Sprints

(05:43) IC Track and Manager Track

(07:20) The DoorDash Story

(08:42) Sponsor - Attio

(09:39) The Evolution of Workforce and Organizational Structures

(14:07)  Shifting from Management to Mastery Roles

--LINKS:Shopify Mastery: https://www.shopify.com/news/mastery

--GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co

In this episode, Kelli and special guest co-host Colleen McCreary go from 0 to 100 with David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-founder of 37signals (Basecamp). The discussion covers 37signals’ radical policies and the “no politics at work” policy that got them canceled on Twitter after corporate America “went woke”. They also discuss the no managers rule that embraces more efficiency in a limited 40 hour work week and why overworking is a dated mindset. David also talks about his love of programming and the development of Ruby on Rails through his unique approach, and how it went on to impact other programmers.

Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Susbscribe now: Hrheretics.substack.com

HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co

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This episode is brought to you by Attio

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

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KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

DHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview

(05:00) Creating Ruby on Rails: DHH's Experience

(10:00) Making Your Code Sing

(12:31) The Role of Management

(14:34) Sponsor - Attio

(16:21) Code is Easy, People are Hard - Aligning and Developing Philosophies

(20:50) Refining the Work Week and How to Get More Out of It

(25:53) Having a Creative Space Within a 40-hour Work Week

(31:01) Office Work vs Remote Work

(34:27) Discussing Diversity and Choices in Companies

(36:10) Wokeness and Surviving Cancel Culture

(41:42) The Importance of Clarity and Identity

(47:18) Radical Candor

(50:54) The Misinterpretation of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

(56:58) Honest Conversations in the Workplace

(59:50) DHH's Take on the HR Profession

(01:05:35) Wrap—

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LINKS:

Radical Candor by Kim Scott

DHH's Writing: https://world.hey.com/dhh

Employee Handbook: https://basecamp.com/handbook

This segment is sparked by the situation at Bolt, where employees who participated in an employee loan program were impacted by the company's valuation which was slashed by 97%. Kelli and Nolan discuss the post termination exercising window, the need for employees to be better educated about equity, and share personal experiences with options. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe hrheretics.substack.com

SPONSOR:Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics 

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Bolt’s revaluation and how it affected employees

(03:30) Get smart about equity

(04:00) Carta’s Guides to Equity

(05:00) Post termination exercise window

(08:00) Sponsor: Attio

(09:00) Why 90 days?

(10:25) Nolan’s personal story with his options from DoorDash

(13:00) Early employees get screwed

(14:00) Request for crowdsourced google sheet

LINKS:

Carta Equity 101 - https://carta.com/equity/learn/

Carta Equity 102 - https://carta.com/blog/personal-finance-102-table-stakes/

GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co

We are so excited to bring you Kelli and Nolan’s interview with L.J. Brock, the CPO of Coinbase – a trailblazing company that has come under scrutiny in the press for their ‘no politics at work’ stance and talent density policies. L.J discusses how Coinbase continues to innovate to drive the company mission, how they ensure the company hiring standards stay at the highest level, how he works with Coinbase’s CEO Brian Armstrong to conceive of new policies, and how Coinbase sees career development.

Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe to our Substack: https://hrheretics.substack.com/

HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co

This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH L.J., NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

L.J.: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lbrock/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:34) Coinbase's Controversial No Politics at Work Policy

(07:29) The Aftermath of the No Politics Policy

(11:25) Running Headfirst Into Your Death Moment

(13:53) Talent Evaluation: Designing an Interview Process That Gives A Realistic Preview

(15:46) Sponsor - Attio

(17:53) Coinbase's Process of Implementing Radical Changes

(24:13) Making Two-Way Door and One-Way Door Decisions

(25:27) On Transparency and the Challenges of Innovating and Implementing Change

(27:51) Sprint Concept

(29:25) How Talent Density Came to Be at Coinbase

(35:10) The Impact of Hiring Processes on Talent Density

(36:57) Challenges of Implementing Real-Time Feedback

(43:00) Doing Work Trials

(45:47) Being More Equitable and Diverse

(48:46) Moving to Single Pay Target and Stock Grants

(55:41) Grooming and Developing More CPOs and HR Leaders

(59:52) Wrap

In this episode Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church talk with Elizabeth Patterson, Partner (People & Talent) at Sapphire Ventures. The conversation is all about how to find the best CPO roles, how VC talent partners actually work, and what it's like engaging with portfolio companies and execs. Lots of insider info. Elizabeth manages Sapphire Venture’s human capital network, including the Sapphire Fellows program.

HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co

This episode is brought to you by Attio

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH ELIZABETH,NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

- Elizabeth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabetharnsdorfpatterson/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview

(03:17) Stories

(08:08) Navigating the Venture Capital World

(11:00) The Gotchas and Ahas of Finding the Best Opportunity into Venture Capital

(13:50) How Success is Measured

(16:00) Sponsor - Attio

(17:11) How to Find the Best CPO Roles

(22:56) The Relationship Between Talent Partners and Executive Recruiters

(27:24) Correlating the Business with Cultural Fit and Vibe in Recruitment

(31:28) Back Channels in Recruitment

(35:49) Executive Compensation on Recruitment

(40:18) How Photographic Memory Helps in Recruitment

(45:53) Elizabeth's Favorite Interview Question

(48:02) Qualities of a Great Leader

In this episode, Nolan and special guest co-host Colleen McCreary delve into diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) with Mita Mallick of Carta. Mita is the Head of Inclusion, Equity and Impact at Carta and the author of Reimagine Inclusion. They discuss the benefits of cross-cultural marketing, how DEI roles aren't set up for success in tech companies, inclusion as a business driver, and successful career succession planning.

Want more Colleen? Check out her DEI Roundtable episode here (https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/colleen-mccreary-on-layoffs-m-and-7cb) and our 3rd ever episode interviewing Colleen about her career ups and downs (https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=39tmjr)

SPONSOR: Attio

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

We highly recommend you subscribe to HR Brew: a free daily newsletter for people leaders and operators https://bit.ly/hrbrew

TIMESTAMPS:

* (00:00) Introduction 

* (01:09) Welcome to HR Heretics

* (01:31) Intro to Mita Malik

* (02:56) Shout Out to HR Brew https://bit.ly/hrbrew

* (04:00) Mita's Book Reimagine Inclusion

* (05:42) Mita's Career in DEI

* (08:52) The Importance of Inclusion in Business

* (14:37) Sponsor: Attio

* (15:40) Measuring Success of Inclusion

* (20:54) The Role of Leadership in Diversity

* (28:55) The Myth of Meritocracy

* (30:02) Realities of Career Progression

* (31:36) Talent Management

* (34:59) The Importance of Honest Feedback

* (38:12) The Role of Inclusion in Competitive Advantage

* (49:05) The Impact of Generational Shifts on Workplace Norms

* (49:55) Wrap

LINKS:

Mita Mallick’s book Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace

KEEP UP WITH MITA, COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Mita: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mita-mallick-2b165822/

Colleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

This segment is sparked by a recent viral video of a layoff recorded by an employee. Kelli and Nolan cover the recent layoffs at Google and Cloudflare, how treatment of an employee during the layoff impacts both the employee and employer, and how companies should handle parting ways with an employee in 2024. Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe: https://hrheretics.substack.com/.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Special segment alert

(00:17) January is the biggest month in the last 20 years for layoffs in tech

(01:10) Kelli's take

(02:41) Bad behavior, bad policies and the need for big tech companies to be called out for doing rolling layoffs

(04:32) Google layoffs

(05:20) Cloudflare employee records her layoff

(06:10) The litmus test of being part of a team (not just HR teams)

(07:03) When CEOs think they can get away with bad behavior since other companies do it

(08:05) What happens when you don't treat employees in good faith

(10:05) Accountability checks on companies during layoffs

(11:20) Back to the golden rule

(11:41) Important reminder for employers

GET IN TOUCH WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

HR Heretics is a podcast from the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at turpentine.co

In this episode Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with Brigette McInnis-Day, CPO of UIPath — a people leader at the biggest company we’ve had repped on the podcast to date.Timestamps and the transcript of our episode with Brigette are below. We love feedback! Subscribe to our substack to get VIDEO episodes in your inbox. You can also always listen to the podcast on Apple & Spotify.

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We highly recommend you subscribe to HR Brew: a free daily newsletter for people leaders and operators https://bit.ly/hrbrew

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KEEP UP WITH BRIGETTE, KELLI, + NOLANBrigette McInnis-Day: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brigettemcinnisday/Kelli Dragovich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/Nolan Church: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

----TIMESTAMPS* (00:00) Intro 

* (02:38) Shout Out to HR Brew https://bit.ly/hrbrew

* (04:07) The Looker Acquisition by Google

* (05:04) The Role of HR in M&A

* (14:12) The UiPath Team Construction

* (21:11) Building a Company with the Right HR Toolkit

* (21:35) The Importance of Prioritizing in a High-Growth Company

* (24:56) Pay Transparency and Pay Equity

* (33:08) The Future of Comp

* (38:41) Negotiating

* (41:56) Learning from Failures in HR

* (47:51) The Strategy of Hiring a SuccessorHR Heretics is a part of Turpentine podcast network. Learn more at www.turpentine.co

This segment is dedicated to covering what rising mid-career HR professionals really want to know. Janelle Lopez, an incredible HR professional, is brought in to interview us about her next move. Janelle, who worked at Yahoo and SurveyMonkey, has 12 years of transformative experiences under her belt, yet finds herself faced with biases and apprehensions from CEOs and founders reluctant to hire a 'number two'. Kelli and Nolan offer advice about taking control of the narrative during the hiring process and leaning into work trials. 

Forward our substack to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to Subscribe: https://hrheretics.substack.com

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro & Janelle’s background

(01:46) What should Janelle’s next steps be?

(02:07) The Debate: Number One or Number Two Role?

(07:45) Overcoming Biases and vhallenges during the search

(08:14) The reframe: loyalty and learning

(15:45) Imposter syndrome

(17:02) Work Trials

GET IN TOUCH WITH JANELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Janelle:https://www.linkedin.com/in/janelle-lopez-29997a4/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/