This week, we’re bringing you a recent interview from “Interesting Times with Ross Douthat,” one of The New York Times’s newest podcasts. In this episode, Ross sits down with Peter Thiel, the co-founder of PayPal and Palantir and one of the most contrarian thinkers in tech. Together, they unpack Thiel’s theory that we’re living through an era of technological stagnation, and debate whether President Trump’s populism and the development of artificial intelligence will help us unlock new progress.

Guest:

• Peter Thiel, co-founder of Paypal and Palantir.

Additional Reading:

• Peter Thiel and the Antichrist

We want to hear from you. Email us at [email protected]. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.