Ever wonder what doctors say about their patients when they think no one can hear? 

Dr. Rana Awdish doesn’t have to wonder - as a patient, she overheard a lot of distressing things. Her experience led her to change how medical providers speak about - and to - their patients, spreading compassion through communication (which we know is a mission dear to my heart). Listen in to hear Dr. Awdish’s take on the pressure on healthcare workers, too. 

Content note: mention of life-threatening illness, pregnancy loss, medical industry

 

In this episode we cover: 

 

• The “two educations” of Dr. Awdish - med school and a life threatening illness
• Why miscommunication is such a dangerous medical practice
• Being present is only the first step - validation is where the real healing begins
• Why compassionate communication helps doctors - maybe even more than it helps patients 
• The very cool CLEAR program - using trained actors to help doctors & medical providers learn how to connect with patients going through some of the hardest times of their lives

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Dr. Rana Awdish is a critical care physician operating on the front lines during COVID-19 at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, MI. Her own serious illness in 2008 has informed her belief in the power of compassion, sacred listening, and community. As medical director of the Care Experience for the Henry Ford Healthcare System, she is training staff to practice empathy in critical care. Find her at ranaawdishmd.com

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Read Dr. Awdish’s book - In Shock: My journey from death to recovery and the redemptive power of hope

Read  “Restoration in the Aftermath” and ”The Shape of the Shore” from Dr. Awdish

Creative Writing as a Medical Instrument - paper by Jay Baruch, cited by Dr. Awdish

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s no secret that healthcare professionals and caregivers of all kinds are stretched beyond their limits. We can’t look to healthcare systems themselves to give us the care and attention we need, so where CAN we go for support (and answers)? 

Don’t miss this week’s episode with guests Koshin Paley Ellison and Chodo Robert Campbell of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. 

In this episode we cover:

 

• Why it’s important to look beyond the identified patient to the invisible web of caregivers
• The realities of caregiver burnout and stress
• The one practice you can do even - and especially - when you have no time to care for yourself
• Do you stay or do you go? Making decisions for yourself inside this healthcare system catastrophe

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guests:

Sensei Chodo Robert Campbell is co-founder of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. His passion lies in bereavement counseling and advocating for change in the way our healthcare institutions work with the dying. Find Chodo and the NYZC @newyorkzencenter on IG, and online at zencare.org

 

Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, Jungian psychotherapist, and Certified Chaplaincy Educator. He is the author of Wholehearted: Slow Down, Help Out, Wake Up and the co-editor of Awake at the Bedside: Contemplative Teachings on Palliative and End of Life Care. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

If you work in healthcare, I very strongly recommend you check out New York Zen Center’s  Contemplative Medicine Fellowship.  

 

To hear one of my favorite passages of all time, read by Chodo Robert Campbell, check out the first video at this link.

 

All of the Zen Center’s offerings, from books to support groups to ongoing educational opportunities can be found at zencare.org. 

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world can feel like such a lonely place sometimes. You ever feel like there’s not enough love and support to go around? Like, there’s a severe shortage of compassion in the world, both for you and well, everyone? Me too, friends. 

To get us into this topic, this week on It’s OK, we cover grief comparisons, like whether divorce and death should be compared, or if the death of anyone should be compared to the loss of a pet. Of course the short answer is no: grief comparisons are never useful. For the long answer though - listen to the show. 

This episode is basically my TED talk, if I had one, on how we create that support-filled world we all want (and deserve). It’s my personal favorite episode of season one, brought to you again for this Valentine’s day. 

 

In this episode we cover:

• Why comparing divorce to death, or pet loss to child loss, is a Very. Bad. Idea. (usually)
• Is it ok to be sad about a musician or actor’s death, even if you never met them? 
• How to treat compassion like an abundant resource AND have good boundaries all at the same 
• The path to the love-filled, support-rich world we all want (it’s not easy, but it’s worth it) 

Terminology update: in this episode I use the term gender-fluid, but the term gender-expansive is more accurate.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Notable quote: 

“It sounds pretty woo but compassion really is an expandable resource. Practicing inclusion and validation means people feel heard, and heard people hear people, which means the whole culture starts to change from one of vindictive “how dare you feel that way!” to at worst, a neutral, impartial kindness, and at best - well, being generous like this creates a world built and sustained by love.” - Megan Devine

 

Resources: 

Love in action! Check out this exceptionally non-extensive list of people to learn from as we grow the love-filled world we all want:  Rachel Cargle, Alok Menon, Alice Wong, Free Mom Hugs, Farmer Veteran Coalition, Natalie Weaver, & Resting Waters

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tembi Locke lived an amazing love story: she met a handsome chef during a study abroad year in Italy when she was just 20 years old. They moved to LA to pursue Tembi’s acting career, and built a life around their love of food, family, and each other.

And then leiomyosarcoma arrived. 

Is it still a Hollywood love story if it doesn’t have a happy ending?

 

In this episode we cover: 

 

• Who’s the real couple behind the hit Netflix series, From Scratch? 
• Why Tembi made sure From Scratch was an honest guide to profound loss
• How the sleeper hit show Eureka taught Tembi that it’s ok to let people help
• How Tembi Locke learned about the grief in Never Have I Ever only after the show came out

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses

 

Related episodes :

Live Each Day Like It’s Your First: with Alua Arthur

Grief In Fiction, Grief In Life, with Best-Selling Author, Emily X.R. Pan

 

About our guest:

Tembi Locke is a writer, executive producer, and an accomplished actor. Her best-selling book, From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home was the basis for the hit Netflix series, From Scratch. Find her @tembilocke

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Read Tembi Locke’s book - From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Did anyone teach you that understanding your grief is the key to being (or becoming) a healthy human being? Probably not. 

In this expansive episode, Megan speaks with world-renowned author and physician Gabor Maté about the role of trauma and grief in our personal lives and in society at large. Dr. Gabor Maté on grief, this week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK.

 

In this episode we cover: 

 

• What is “personal agency” and why does losing personal agency create disease? 
• Why calling grief a disorder has social, relational and political ramifications
• How do elephants grieve? Is it really so different from humans? 
• Women as the emotional shock absorbers for the rest of the world
• Dr. Gabor Maté’s conversation with Prince Harry (!) 

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses

 

About our guest: 

Dr. Gabor Maté is a renowned speaker and author, with expertise in trauma, stress, addiction, and child development. He’s the NYT best-selling author of The Myth of Normal, Scattered Minds, the award-winning In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and many other books. 

 

Find him at drgabormate.com

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Watch the documentary The Wisdom of Trauma  exploring Gabor Maté’s work to understand the connection between illness, addiction, trauma, and society.  

 

Read Hold on to Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Maté

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you heal pain by focusing on joy? 

Baratunde Thurston gave what’s been called “the greatest TED talk of all time.” He’s written about being Black in America, he’s got a podcast about community involvement called How to Citizen, and he’s got a PBS television show that explores the beauty and diversity of America. 

There’s a duality running through all of this work, and in Baratunde’s personal life: mourning and celebration. From the early death of a parent, to men’s emotional health, to violence against Black men and boys, to the healing power of play and community, this week’s episode is a fascinating discussion of both grief and celebration - and why you don’t get one without the other. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

• Baratunde says he’s “wired for optimism” - which makes identifying his own grief… complicated
• How you can lose a parent at a young age and not recognize the impact until you’re an adult
• Why seeing other people be good parents can bring up grief
• Black joy and men’s community (plus the hashtag #BlackMenFrolicking)
• Why is it hard to play as an adult - and find other adults to play with? 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Baratunde Thurston is an Emmy-nominated, multi-platform storyteller and producer operating at the intersection of race, tech, democracy, and climate. He is the host of the PBS television series America Outdoors with Baratunde Thurston, creator and host of How To Citizen with Baratunde, and a founding partner of the new media startup Puck. His comedic memoir, How To Be Black, is a New York Times best-seller. Baratunde serves on the boards of BUILD.org and the Brooklyn Public Library. 

 

Find him at baratunde.com and follow him on social media @baratunde

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Read Baratunde’s book - How to be Black 

Baratunde’s TED talk How to Deconstruct Racism, One Headline at a Time 
‘America is addicted to watching me die…’ - Baratunde’s Puck article "Thoughts & Tears For Tyre" 

Baratunde mentioned Valarie Kaur - get her book, See No Stranger, and listen to her episode on It’s OK that You’re Not OK

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever wanted to just SMASH things? Leanne Pedante and her husband Miles’ relationship was built on bravery and communication - they worked so hard to reach the next step together, excited to explore the edges of possibility in love and in life. On his way back to see Leanne after several months away, Miles’ car veered off the road, and he was killed.

In the just under three years since, Leanne has continued to grow the virtual reality fitness community, Supernatural. As a late-comer to fitness, Leanne is no stranger to using movement as a way to process and express pain. 

Today on It’s OK, we discuss the ways grief has upended her life, and the ways that both movement and community have kept her alive - willing, at least most days, to lean into the full experience of life. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

 

• Punk-style relationships: how Leanne & Miles created a marriage that suited them
• What one friend told Leanne, and how those words kept her tethered to the world
• Why grief-informed fitness should really be a thing
• The weird world of encouraging others to do things you’re not comfortable doing yourself

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses

About our guest:

Leanne Pedante is a trainer and trauma + resiliency coach, whose work focuses on connecting people to their bodies and to their full potential. She works as both coach and the Head of Fitness for Supernatural, the VR fitness platform. Her own workouts let her celebrate her physical and mental strength and she wants to show others how to access the pride and power within joyful movement. Follow her on IG at @leannepedante

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

Additional resources:

Sign up for Leanne’s newsletter and check out the other community-building things she’s created at her website leannepedante.com

 

Try Supernatural with a free trial (VR headset required)

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays are over - you made it. By the looks of our inbox, the season wasn’t easy. This week, a holiday debrief, including bad behavior from therapists, why religion is not the answer to grief, and some true facts about dating after loss. 

 

In this episode we cover:

 

• How to say “I can’t work with you” without accidentally shaming your patients or clients
• Why “but your (dead relative) is all around you, just in a new form!” maybe isn’t the most supportive thing to say
• Questions to ask yourself when faced with a surprise romantic breakup (and what that has to do with grief) 
• And as always - fun talk about boundaries. 

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link. 

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses.

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

 

In part 2 of this episode we cover 

 

• How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
• Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy
• The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love
• Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:

Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. 

 

Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)

 

Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

 

• How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
• Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy
• The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love
• Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:

Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. 

 

Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional resources:

Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)

 

Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.