The Sunday Times’ tech correspondent Danny Fortson brings on Jaron Lanier, virtual reality pioneer, computer scientist, and author, to talk about being a “traitor” to Silicon Valley (3:40), the “bummer machine” (7:10), being purposefully alarmist (7:50), why nastiness is the crude oil of social media (9:10), why technology's role in social movements is misleading (12:20), why we should be like cats (16:25), why the incentives need to be remade (18:45), how the industry could be overhauled (21:05), on whether the tech industry is having an identity crisis (23:30), the death of context (28:10), the survival of the human race (32:20), aiding the education of artificial intelligence (34:05), and AI marketing nonsense (41:20).

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