Jason Gray has spent decades writing the songs that shaped Christian radio, but don't expect this conversation with Andrew Osenga to stay on the hits for long. It winds through Jason's theory of what actually makes a song great versus just successful, and into heavier territory: the childhood speech impediment he once believed God would heal as proof of faith, and what he learned instead when the healing never came. He talks candidly about his divorce, and how years of praying harder than he'd ever prayed for anything didn't save his marriage — and how that experience quietly took apart everything he used to believe about how God shows up for people. What's left, he says, is a faith that's less certain but somehow requires more trust. Along the way, Jason opens up about a stretch of years, brought on by the stress of the divorce, when he lost the ability to concentrate enough to read — and how getting a record player recently brought his love of music and reading back to life. It's an honest, unhurried conversation about growing up, letting go of certainty, and learning to be more suspicious of your own self-righteousness than anyone else's.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

"It wasn't the things I said, it wasn't the songs I sang that spoke the loudest to people. It was the fact that I was broken and I got up and I did it anyway." - Jason Gray

"Maybe God doesn't want to heal me of my speech impediment, maybe he wants to bring healing to others through it. And maybe it's an example of God's spendthrift economy, where nothing is wasted and everything gets used." - Jason Gray

"The most radically transformational thing that I could do is just allow myself to be loved by God and to allow that to become the fundamental piece of my identity — that I'm God's beloved." - Jason Gray

"I'm interested in not being self-righteous, you know. And so much of the religious conversation is about being right, and I have the truth and I stand on the word of truth." - Jason Gray

"When my life broke in the middle, all of my answers turned into riddles." - Jason Gray

"How do I pursue truth but resist my need to be right?" - Jason Gray

"If I'm hearing a voice that is telling me something I didn't see before and is asking me to do something I don't want to do, I don't think I'm generating that. I think that is someone else." - Jason Gray

"Dear God, bust apart my ideas of you so I can keep growing deeper into intimacy with you." - Jason Gray

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

“Roaring Lambs” by Bob Briner

“Surprised by Hope” by N.T. Wright (source for "With Every Act of Love") 

“Pilgrim at Tinker Creek” by Annie Dillard (source for "Nothing Is Wasted") 

“Theo of Golden” by Allen Levi 

“Everyday Life” by Coldplay (album)

Acoustic Greatest Hits by Jason Gray

Acoustic Storytime (Jason's radio show, SiriusXM)

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!  

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga. 

Guest’s Links: 

Jason Gray’s website

Jason Gray’s Facebook

Jason Gray’s Instagram

Jason Gray’s X

Jason Gray’s YouTube

Connect with Andrew: 

Website

YouTube

Substack

Spotify

Facebook

Instagram

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.