We’ve all heard it called a sifting—the language that sometimes surfaces when someone is struggling or steps away from the Church. Wheat from tares, sheep from goats, a sorting in the last days that reveals truly elect.

But today, our good friend and contributor Jeff Strong is back to invite us into a deeper reflection on that idea—and what he sees as the more essential question: Who is the Church for?

Jeff shares how the way we answer that question has real implications—shaping how we respond to difference, and how we create (or close off) spaces for spiritual growth, belonging, and trust.

In this conversation, he also brings new and fascinating findings from his large-scale survey of Latter-day Saints. Jeff introduces a framework of spiritual segments that emerged from the data—types like Seekers, Protectors, Cultivators, and more. It’s illuminating to see yourself in one of these groups—but maybe even more powerful to recognize how others might experience the same Church culture in radically different ways.

He reflects on the tension people feel when their deepest values don’t seem to match what’s emphasized in their church experience. And he offers a way through that tension: wherever you fit, we each face the challenge to let go of fear—because fear, more than anything else, is what drives us apart.

Ultimately, this conversation isn’t about disaffiliation or activity—it’s about relationships. It’s about how we respond to differences, how we hold tension as a community, and whether we’re building a church culture that reflects the expansive, welcoming love of Christ.

And just a heads up: the story Jeff tells toward the end might sound familiar––in fact, Sister Dennis used it in conference this year, though we recorded this episode before conference, so we didn’t tie it in at the time.

Also, there are some really interesting graphs and charts that Jeff mentions that are in the YouTube version of this conversation if you’d like to watch this one instead, or you can search the episode on faithmatters.org and see them there.

Listen to the audiobook of The Bible Storybook by Sarah and Josh Sabey in Scripture Stories for Little Saints on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Our donors and paid subscribers make this collaboration possible--thank you for your support!