This is a very special episode in which I had the chance to introduce two of my heroes: Buddhist scholar Robert Thurman and science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson. They shared a lively conversation together that you now have the chance to eavesdrop on (with their permission).

In their dialogue, they talk about when violence is legitimate in situations like the Tibetan or Ukrainian invasions, their personal relationships to the Dalai Lama, and how we might make Kim Stanley Robinson's fictional climate solutions from his latest novel The Ministry for the Future start working in real life.

In this intimate conversation between two people who have wanted to meet each other for a long time, Robert Thurman and Kim Stanley Robinson also speak frankly about their politics and their ideas, both for saving the planet and for simple mental health in a world that's filled with climate and social emergencies. As Kim Stanley Robinson put it, "spiritual and political advice."

I hope you enjoy their conversation.

Episode 128: Kim Stanley Robinson and Robert Thurman: Climate, Politics, and the Dalai Lama

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