Let's Argue About Plants

It’s late-July and we’re officially HOT. And so are our gardens. Now is the time that we start to truly sit up and take notice of the plants that seem to be gliding through summer’s worst without skipping a beat. Today’s episode pays tribute to all those perennials and shrubs that take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’. We found some stars that thrive in heat, lean soil, and even some selections for the most dreaded of conditions: dry shade. If these plants do well in awful situations, think how much better they might do in slightly better ones?  

Expert: Kim Toscano is a horticulturalist, entomologist, garden designer, writer, and graphic designer. She previously hosted Oklahoma Gardening, a weekly PBS television program produced by the Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Service. 

Jared Barnes is an associate professor of horticulture at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas, where he and his students cultivate The Plantery, a botanic garden complete with a native plant trial garden. Jared shares his love of plants with a wider audience through his gardening newsletter and The Plantastic Podcast, and he is also a frequent contributor to Fine Gardening. Recent topics that he has covered for the magazine include plant survival strategies, evaluating how much sunlight or shade a garden bed gets, and propagating plants from cuttings. Listen along as we learn more about what it takes to become a horticulture professor, and how to build an engaged community around a shared love of plants.

There’s nothing nicer than being outside on a beautiful late spring day, especially if it means you get a whole day away from your desk. Danielle, Carol, and digital editor Christine Alexander recently played hooky from their editorial duties and went on a horticultural adventure at one of New England’s great public gardens. Located in Boylston, Massachusetts, Tower Hill is filled with fun places to explore, including formal gardens, woodland trails lined with native plantings, and two conservatories. After exploring the grounds and chatting about some of the great plants they came across, Danielle and Carol sat down for a chat with Tower Hill’s director of horticulture, Mark Richardson. We hope this episode inspires you to get out and enjoy a field trip to a public garden near you! 

Did you ever wonder what it would be like to get exclusive access to the RHS Chelsea Flower Show? Well, your dreams have come true because in this exclusive interview we got an all-access pass to THE horticultural event of the year thanks to Annie Guilfoyle, a 2024 judge. Annie is co-founder of Garden Masterclass in the UK and an award wining garden designer who earned a Silver Medal at Cheslea years ago for her innovative landscape design. Annie is just back from the show this year and shares details from her favorite gardens, interesting new plants that caught her attention, and even some celebrity gossip from those stars that were in attendance at the show. (Spoiler alert: she did not  see Lady Whistledown at the Bridgerton -themed garden). We discussed how native plants and sustainable practices played a role in this year’s event and talk about themes of water conservation and hardscape upcycling.  

Looking to attend the show next year? Then you’re in luck because Annie shares some tip sand tricks for navigating the show grounds and insights on how to make the most of your visit. Who needs Monty Don when you’ve got Annie Guilfoyle? Not us! 

Chances are, you’ve got mixed conditions in your garden. One area might be in full sun, while another spot a bit farther away is in full shade. Even beds that have the same exposure on paper may have larger plants that shade out the ground below. This presents a challenge for developing a cohesive look within a landscape. As gardeners, we’ve been taught that repetition is one of the tenets of good garden design. But how can one repeat groupings of a plant throughout a border that stretches from bright light to dappled shade? The answer is by utilizing plants that are highly adaptable and will thrive in both sun and shade. In today’s episode we’re singing the praises of these flexible species. They are invaluable assets to the landscape and, as a bonus, will hold their own when the light conditions of a garden inevitably change over time.   

Amy Galloway is a horticulturist at the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center in Austin, Texas. 

Irvin Etienne is the curator of herbaceous plants and seasonal garden design at Newfields, a 152-acre campus with art galleries, performance spaces, world-class public gardens, and a nature park in Indianapolis. Irvin has been a frequent contributor to Fine Gardening, sharing his horticultural expertise through informative articles like A Bright Idea for Spring Containers, Big and Bold Plants for the Back of the Border, and Bring It In!, a primer on overwintering all kinds of tropical plants. In this episode he delves into the path that brought him to horticulture, the lessons learned from decades of gardening in public, and some of the (many, many) plants that earn their keep in his home garden.

Due to their size and expense, gardeners tend to put a lot more thought into the trees they ultimately buy for their landscape. While a perennial might only live for 6 or 7 years, a tree might grace your garden for 50 years or more—outliving the person who so carefully selected it, in fact. Here at Fine Gardening, we feel strongly that trees should look good in more than one season (for all of the reasons above AND because they take up a lot of real estate). Therefore, on today’s episode, we may be highlighting our favorite flowering trees for every season, but these choices have more going for them than just some fleeting blooms. Listen to hear about which trees we’re willing to sacrifice a chunk of our paycheck on and why.   

Amanda Bennett is vice president of horticulture and collections at Atlanta Botanical Gardens in Georgia. 

Jay Sifford is an award-winning landscape designer based in North Carolina. Several of his garden designs have been featured in Fine Gardening, including a one-of-a-kind modern meadow garden and a series of beautiful, functional dry creek beds.

Jay’s immersive, naturalistic landscape designs are based around four cornerstones: art, magic, story, and horticulture. In this episode, Jay offers insights into the ways that these elements can be incorporated into a truly personal garden space.

Jay sees this modern meadow garden as a stylized version of nature where fantasy and reality collide. 

Grasses and perennials planted in large masses and punctuated with unique conifers give the meadow garden its unique appeal. 

In winter, evergreens and grasses add structure and interest to the snowy landcape.

Another view of the meadow garden at the peak of summer. 

A dry streambed designed to manage stormwater doubles as a dynamic visual element. 

Gravel pathways were the perfect solution for this pet-friendly landscape. 

Every garden design that Jay creates includes a little bit of magic. 

One of the worst sights you can ever see in the garden is a plant that has been browsed by deer. (Sidenote: we don't love the gentle word “browsed” in this instance. A more appropriate term might be “obliterated.”) If the munching is particularly bad, that perennial, tree, or shrub becomes unrecognizable. And in many cases, this can mean instant death to your prized specimen. With deer pressure increasing from coast-to-coast, we decided it’s time to highlight some of our favorite deer-resistant plants. Yes, we’re from deer-ridden New England, but rest assured that we’ve included plants in this episode that will thrive from Texas to Michigan, and everywhere in between.

Guest: Karen Chapman is a landscape designer in Duvall, Washington, and the author of Deer-Resistant Design: Fence Free Gardens that Thrive Despite the Deer.

'Childhood Sweetheart' hellebore (Helleborus 'Childhood Sweetheart', Zones 4-9)

Winter daphne (Daphne odora, Zones 7-9)

'Bonfire' euphorbia (Euphorbia polychroma 'Bonfire', Zones 5-9)

Sunshine Blue® blue mist shrub (Caryopteris incana 'Jason', 5-9)

Hiba arborvitae (Thujopsis dolobrata 'Variegata’, Zones 5-8)

‘Victoria Blue’ mealycup sage (Salvia farinacea 'Victoria Blue', Zones 8-10)

Eastern sweetshrub, syn. Carolina allspice (Calycanthus floridus, Zones 4-9)

‘Gerald Darby’ iris (Iris × robusta 'Gerald Darby', Zones 4-9)

Magical® Fantasy weigela (Weigela florida 'Kolsunn', Zones 4-8)

Threadleaf bluestar (Amsonia hubrichtii, Zones 5-8)

'Whirling Butterflies' gaura (Gaura lindheimeri 'Whirling Butterflies', Zones 5-9)

'Goldsturm' black-eyed Susan (Rudbeckia fulgida var. sullivantii 'Goldsturm', Zones 3-9)

Richard Hawke is the Director of Ornamental Plant Research at Chicago Botanic Garden, where he oversees comparative evaluations of ornamental plants. The CBG Plant Evaluation Program has included 117 distinct trials over the past four decades, with 26 comparative trials currently underway in three evaluation areas. In 2011, Richard began reporting trial results in Fine Gardening magazine, and has since written dozens of feature articles that can be found by visiting his author page.

In this entertaining episode, Richard Hawke discusses his earliest memories of plants and gardening, the education and internships that laid the foundation for his career, and the joys and challenges of developing a world-class plant trial program. He also digs into the day-to-day details of plant evaluation and talks about some trials that yielded surprising results and some that were particular favorites, including evaluations of clematis, baptisias, butterfly bushes, and tender salvias.

Richard joined the staff of the Chicago Botanic Garden in the mid-1980s.

CBG’s trial of tender salvias identified many vigorous cultivars that do well when grown as annuals.

The Chicago Botanic Garden has trialed 198 heucheras since 1995. Find out which cultivars performed better than the classics here.

The Chicago Botanic garden was built on a series of islands, and soil conditions are not ideal. The original trial beds were atop a substrate of clay soil compacted by heavy equipment; the water table is very high, and drainage can be problematic. Richard talks about these soil woes, and the solutions that have improved soil structure and drainage in the newest plant evaluation area.

The Chicago Botanic Garden was built on a series of islands with heavy clay soil.

Field evaluation is a core component of plant trials at Chicago Botanic Garden.

The Green Roof Gardens built atop the Plant Conservation Science Center are used to evaluate the suitability of plants for use in green roof assemblies.

With 26 trials currently underway, the evaluation areas at the Chicago Botanic Garden are a hub of research activity.

Richard now spends much of his time behind a desk, which makes him relish his time in the field even more.

The Plant Evaluation Program at Chicago Botanic Garden is one of the largest and most diverse in the nation.