This week—June 9th—marks the 47th anniversary of the 1978 revelation that ended the Church’s 126-year ban on Black members receiving the priesthood and entering the temple. It’s a moment we often point to with reverence and gratitude—but the story we’ve inherited about how it happened is, in many ways, incomplete.

To help us understand more fully what led to that pivotal moment, we’re joined by Dr. Matthew Harris, whose new book Second-Class Saints draws on previously unavailable documents—including the complete, unredacted journals from Pres. Spencer W. Kimball and private papers from several other apostles and prophets who were part of this story. What emerges is a story of complex revelation—one that didn’t arrive all at once, but unfolded slowly through conversation, persuasion, and deep personal growth.

We sometimes talk about the 1978 revelation as if it came out of nowhere—a sudden command from heaven. But Matt helps us see the reality that this was a process shaped by years of thoughtful wrestling and dialogue, by courageous individuals who quietly worked to open hearts and minds, and by the unwavering faith of Black members who carried impossible burdens with grace and conviction.

In our conversation today, we explored what it means to be part of a living church—one that’s capable of change because it’s built on continuing revelation. We talked about how “doctrine” has been defined and redefined across the Church’s history, the vital role each of us plays in the process of institutional revelation, because this isn’t just about the past—it’s about how we show up today: how we answer President Nelson’s call to root out racism and build a more inclusive future within the body of Christ.

We’re deeply grateful to Matt for his careful, bold work. And with that, we’ll jump right into our conversation with Matt Harris.

Buy the book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/45a7Ijl

Buy from Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/108982/9780197695715