Check out the collection of fidgets Team Shiny loves! 

Isabelle and David welcome back Marcus Soutra, co-founder of Eye to Eye and founder of For the Good Consulting, and explore the nature of authenticity, "coolness" and the meaning of masking with nation-wide advocacy expert and fellow ADHD and LD-er. How did being "cool" go from being rich and unaffected to being authentic and open about ND/LD identities? From the loneliness and high masking rates of ADHDers, to Abercrombie & Fitch t-shirts and social media, the ways ND culture has approached masking and unmasking.

----
Isabelle talks about how being wealthy and affording the performance/clothes of ‘coolness’ growing up was Abercrombie & Fitch back in her high school days--these were expensive clothes that you had to get at the mall and were part of the performance of being 'cool.' And what about how much of coolness, at least for a time, was defined by money, or access to certain expensive clothing brands (like Abercrombie and Fitch) What it means to perform and be high masking, for her. There is a coolness factor, the kid who can pick up what’s cool has an advantage over the kid who doesn’t. Marcus sums it up: are you able to fit in and be embraced by the neurotypical world? And if you can’t, there’s the loner path, the bully path? The empathy he has for the bully path—they were, in his past, the LD/ND kids who were dealing with loneliness and not masking well and it was their way of finding their way to a role in the school community. 60% of people with ADHD say they mask on regular basis and 33% say there is a loneliness to the experience of having ADHD. Then there’s also the pain of being high-masking or being accepted by the neurotypical world, how little practice you have at sitting with who you really are, and finding a stable sense of self. There is a way to be a self to fit in that is not the same as an authentic, self-confident knowing-who-you-are self. The difference between doing it in a healthy way v. doing it in a way to survive. Hard to know what parts of you are okay, and when you’re blending into a neurotypical world, there’s a significant advantage of being able to read the rooms around social cues. Marginalized senses of self are real, having to exist believing you’re less than. Or believing if the mask ever falls, it’s terrifying. Isabelle names that there’s a management around masking and the layers, like she can unmask and say “I have ADHD!” but she doesn’t say, “I have ADHD and I screwed up the finances again so I can’t afford the school bill.” Something for her connects coolness to unaffectedness, not being vulnerable, or not caring what others think. Beyond the unique person who owns where they are, where does coolness come from in our culture? Marcus responds that it's often the people at the top of the social hierarchy, it’s the celebrities, the role models.  Growing up for Marcus, there were the most attractive movie stars who were dyslexia, like Tom Cruise, Orlando Bloom, not Paul Giamatti. When it came to Aspergers (previous name for low support need Autism, check out more in depth on this history below) or Autism (before it was known as Autism Spectrum Disorder or ASD) were superheroes, like RainMan, Temple Grandin, and that was our introduction to the autism community. If you’re dyslexic, the way to make it out is to have hotness or have superhero qualities, and if you don’t fit into either one of those, good luck. This brings up how celebrities are not so far removed anymore, from the days that you got these bland PR stories or tabloids, now you have people sharing their stories and unmasking on social media. Marcus names that authenticity is now a part of social media, and it’s important for celebrities to have a cause, to be speaking to some aspect of this. If we'recynical, it could be a branding strategy, or it could be a shift in culture, because this emphasis on authenticity rather than hiding has been a big change in the last five years. 

What is Abercrombie & Fitch? The following documentary covers it pretty much:

"White Hot: The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie and Fitch" (Netflix documentary)

DEFINITIONS:
Masking: Often used in referenced to autistic folx (Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)), it also applies to folx with ADHD, OCD, and all kinds of neurodivergence (ND) and learning differences (LD), like dyslexia, dycalculia, dyspraxia, dysgraphia, etc. It’s the idea that you have to wear a neurotypical "mask" to be accepted or to engage in a world made for those that are neurotypical. You 'pretend' as if you brain and nervous system work in ways they don't. It can be (and feel like) a matter of survival. 

From a great article on the topic:

“For many neurodivergent people, masking is a survival tool for engaging in neurotypical societies and organizations. Masking (also called camouflaging) is the artificial performance of social behaviors deemed more “socially acceptable” in a neurotypical culture.”

For more on Marcus Soutra:

www.For the Good Consulting.com

Soutra is a dynamic, award-winning advocate, leader, and trailblazer in the field of neurodiversity (ND). An ND individual himself and former classroom teacher turned social entrepreneur, he co-founded and led Eye to Eye, scaling the organization’s impact on thousands of schools and individuals across the United States. A sought-after speaker, Soutra has delivered compelling talks on stages worldwide, from Harvard to Tokyo, has appeared in dozens of television broadcasts and podcasts,  and has been featured in leading publications including Forbes, The Hill, and Philanthropy Digest. In recognition of his transformative work, he received an honorary doctorate from his alma mater in the spring of 2024.

As the founder of For The Good Consulting, Soutra now supports organizations dedicated to driving systemic change for individuals furthest from opportunity. He resides in Brooklyn, NY, with his wife, an educator and learning specialist, where together they continue to advocate for a more equitable world for all students.

------

Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

Here's a nifty little promo code for those who either delayed gratification or who let this episode run through to the end because they were busy vacuuming.