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You know what to do. You’ve made the list, downloaded the app, maybe even set a timer. But when it’s time to actually do the thing, your brain shuts down. And instead of momentum, you get a wall of shame.

In this episode of Something Shiny: ADHD, David and Isabelle are joined by Russ Jones, creator of ADHD Big Brother, wellness coach, and no-BS accountability pro. Russ brings a unique humor and honesty to one of the hardest parts of living with ADHD—knowing what to do but still not being able to do it.

This conversation dives into:

• The motivation myth (and what actually helps ADHD brains move)
• Why “just try harder” never works
• The role of accountability—especially when it’s designed for you
• How shame becomes invisible architecture in your daily life
• The shift that happens when someone believes in your ability to change

Russ isn’t here to hand out hacks—he’s here to name what’s real, what’s hard, and what might help. Because sometimes the most useful tool is someone showing you that you’re not broken, you’ve just been using the wrong blueprint.

Want more from Russ? Visit ADHDBigBrother.com and check out the ADHD Big Brother Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

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You know that moment when you're doing something hard, painful, or just plain exhausting, and a tiny voice whispers, "Why is this so hard for me?" You're not alone and in this episode we'll break down where that comes from and how to escape the shame spiral.

We're joined again by therapist Grace Gautier, a trans woman who works closely with trans and neurodivergent communities. Last week the group cracked open the shame so many of us carry about being “too much” or “not enough” and began to see those traits not as flaws, but as survival strategies. If you haven’t heard that one yet, listen here. It’s a grounding prequel to this one—especially if you’ve ever felt like you had to earn your way into belonging. This episode follows that path even deeper! Because once you name the systems that shaped you, the question becomes: now what?

It's a conversation about internalized ableism, pushing through pain to prove worth, and the quiet (and sometimes loud) practice of unmasking. Not everywhere. Not all at once. Just somewhere. 

Together, they unpack:

• Why we equate doing hard things with being good enough
• How ableism hides in everyday pressure and perfectionism
• What it looks like to stop chasing ease and start honoring honesty
• The quiet power of choosing to show up as yourself

If you've ever felt stuck over performing while quietly falling apart, this conversation might be a the paradigm shift you need.

🎧 Follow Something Shiny: ADHD for more conversations that help you understand your ADHD and remind you, you were never too much.

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There’s a particular kind of tired that seeps past your muscles—it settles in your body memory. The kind that comes from years spent reshaping yourself around other people’s comfort. If you’ve ever been told your joy was too big, your voice too loud, your questions too many—this conversation might feel like exhaling.

In this episode of Something Shiny: ADHD, therapist Grace Gautier joins Isabelle Richards and David Kessler for a deeply human conversation about what it means to hide your corners to stay connected. Grace, a trans woman who works closely with trans and neurodivergent communities, puts language to something so many of us have felt but couldn’t name: carceral logic—that cultural instinct to isolate or correct those who struggle, instead of shifting the environment to support them.

We talk about what happens when systems teach us to monitor ourselves before anyone else can. How masking gets confused for maturity. How survival strategies get mislabeled as flaws. And why returning to connection—not perfection—is the real work of healing.

We explore:

• The overlap between neurodivergent and trans lived experiences
• Why we learn to tuck away the most beautiful, vital parts of ourselves
• The difference between being managed and being met
• How community becomes the repair

David brings in the metaphor of the uncarved block—this tender image of a version of you untouched by the sanding-down of social expectation. Grace recognizes herself immediately. She traces how her sensory overwhelm, emotional intensity, and clutter-as-memory weren’t signs of dysfunction—they were adaptations. Signals. Ways of being.

Grace also shares the ache of her father’s deportation and the clarity that arrived when she was finally diagnosed with ADHD later in life. Suddenly, things made sense. She didn’t need to try harder—she needed support that didn’t punish her nervous system.

By the end of this conversation, you'll realize the parts you were taught to hide were actually never flaws to fix, but rather truths you were carrying alone. What shifts when you stop mistaking survival for failure? What changes when you see your ADHD traits not as obstacles, but as signals? Maybe, for the first time, things make sense. And maybe that sense brings a kind of peace you didn’t know you were allowed to feel.

🎧 Follow Something Shiny: ADHD wherever you get your podcasts for conversations that help you understand your ADHD and feel more at home in your brain.

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We gotta be able to handle hearing people talk about us, even when it's triggering and hard, because it can ultimately show us where the work is. And maybe you can be an expert on soething without having it yourself (like ADHD) but perhaps it requires a sense of curiosity, empathy, or some kind of introspection that recpognizes your lane, your scope, and your own biases? From anthropology and sociology to X-Men and who is Magneto and Charles Xavier, David and Isabelle meander through what it means to be an ally and also set up some solid recent hyperfixations.
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We gotta tolerate hearing people talking about what they think about us, including people who have lots of degrees and expertise, and also know that each person doesn’t have the answers. Maybe it has to do with conversations that people have about us without us ADHDers? Then again there are journalists, who don’t have expertise but who can report on the data they get. David names that there are good and bad journalists, and there is critical thinking. How much about people’s ADHD ‘expertise’ includes interpersonal work and understanding about attachment, relationships, your own identity. Like, if you’re an expert on ADHD and you’re not friends with people who have ADHD outside of your work (if you yourself don’t have it)—something to look at? David names that as therapists, we have this debate about multicultural approaches—do you need to have a white therapist to work with white clients, a Black therapist to work with Black therapists? You need to know your lane and your expertise. David’s own therapist is not an expert in ADHD. And neither is Isabelle’s. They know to ask us questions, can ask “how does this relate to ADHD?” We might be the person with ADHD that helps them better understand that. Allies don’t want to get rid of parts of you, they want to help parts of you. An ally is different than a researcher, Isabelle wants to name that you need to be enough of an ally to a topic and be curious. In undergrad, she studied anthropology and archaeology, and it’s a blend of super specific science and also lots of educated guessing. She remembers learning about participant observation in anthropology, that just by observing a culture or a group you are impacting the group. It’s way more about noticing what your own biases are. David’s own background in sociology, the idea of intersectionality. David didn’t really think about ADHD or neurodiversity as a culture until college. He’s a big comic book fan and he loved the X-Men. They’re trying to hide their mutant powers to not be exploited by the government and the X-Men are trying to help these mutants and take them to saving. Charles Xavier and Magneto were portrayed to be iconic people. Magneto was Malcolm X while Charles Xavier was based on Martin Luther King, Jr. It’s two different portrayals around protecting yourself—do you get violent and active or passive? Maybe the mutants are a great metaphor for neurodiversity as well as the civil rights war—if you have been marginalized you can have empathy toward other people who are marginalized. It’s not so personal, people do things to us that they do to other marginalized groups. It can also signify that we have a culture. It would be if everyone says they have a pile of unfolded clothes that threaten your identity, your pile of mail—-culturally both David and Isabelle are both connected to the plan that they didn’t want to leave it there. When we connect about parts of our culture. Isabelle and David so appreciate this conversation. Isabelle names asynchronous processing—she can’t just off the cuff rattle off her ideas and also needs time to talk it out, externalize, and think about things beyond the initial moment or conversations. How important it is for us to keep having these conversations. Isabelle wonders if David is like Charles Xavier. He wishes he could be Charles Xavier. Isabelle might be Charles Xavier. Because maybe she loves or identifies with Patrick Stewart so much. So maybe David is Magneto—in the comic books they were best friends, and he was like “they’ll never learn, we need to protect our people” whereas as the other is like “don’t give in to our aggressive urges.” David needs to shout out: Dungeon Crawler Carl. Not wearing any pants, the cat jumps out of his house trying to get the cat out of the tree, and Carl can then go on an 18 level dungeon crawl and can save the planet earth. The audio book is a treasure, David is a big fan of role playing games, he consumed all seven books in less than three weeks. Isabelle names why cats get stuck in trees, their claws go the other way so they get stuck—but big cats can go backwards. Isabelle mentions an enneagram book that she really appreciates. She was hooked on Borders and loved it as a kid and would keep trying to have someone explain me to me, and one of those books was on the enneagram (which makes David feel like he went to the bathroom during learning fractions and never picked up on it). And she mispronounced it and would read the book at people. Because tell her she’s neurospicy without telling her she’s neurospicy.

Stephanie Sarkis is an ADHD expert who also has ADHD 

 X-Men and more on Patrick Stewart

The American Psychological Association vote on 'homosexuality' being listed as a diagnosable mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) happened back in the LATE 80's (WHAAAATTTTT? yes).--there is a long history to depathologizing sexual identities, deeply impacted by tons of activism and advocacy. For more, you can see this NIH article on this history.

Dungeon Crawler Carl series

Cats getting stuck on trees because of claw shape -- fascinatingly, going down backwards is a skill some cats can learn. Also, here is this website: Catrescueguy.com. *(you're welcome)*

The amazing enneagram book Isabelle was trying to remember the title of -- The Unfiltered Enneagram by Elizabeth Orr

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Is the 'overdiagnosing' of ADHD, autism, and other neurodevelopmental conditions a 'danger,' and to whom? Isabelle and David continue taking some common myths and misperceptions, questioning who and how we gatekeep 'neurodiversity' (including the idea that maybe there really is no 'neurotypical')--and how one group's fears that these labels harm us cannot negate the fear neurospicy folks have that they will be in trouble, or judged, or stigmatized for being who they are and unmasking. Also using the power of compassion and inviting more conversations, while not jumping to cancelling anyone--because everyone gets to fart in an elevator once or twice.
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Isabelle is coming in hot. She continues to explore her reaction to a podcast episode she listened to recently, Armchair Expert with guest Suzanne O’Sullivan on overdiagnosis, which went from covering seizure disorders to ADHD and autism, especially high-masking autism, real quick.  She is so frustrated that a non-expert on ADHD—someone like O’Sullivan, whose expertise is working with epilepsy and seizure disorders, has now spent so much time talking about ADHD and autism when that is not an area of expertise. David names that he thinks this is an important conversation to have, because we are validating the other perspectives. There is a medical model of disease sets us up to want to oppose or eradicate the ‘disease;’ where things like neurodevelopment conditions like ADHD and autism are not something to be ‘cured’ or ‘fixed.” David makes the comparison, its like a bunch of people sitting and talking about going to Mexico when no one has ever been there—cultural representation. For example, someone has mild amounts of anxiety throughout the day. They understand this anxiety as having ADHD. They use ADHD interventions to help them and they found a community, and it makes sense and they feel better, it works for them. And then someone comes up with a reason to say that person does not have ADHD, that this definition does not apply—why are we being so careful when it comes to gatekeeping diversity, including neurodiversity?  This wonderful person that David met at a training, named Shay, asked: is there anyone that is neurotypical? We could think of the difference between traits and states. And then he thought about personal examples. He doesn’t know if there is someone "neurotypical." Would it to be less shocking that people have different neurological needs or educational differences if we recognized that there may be no 'one' baseline or group to compare everything to? And how quickly we dismiss difference--like knowing that because David listened to books, the argument that what he did was not 'reading'--but we get back to actual question, which is...what was the task, and did it get done?  Often, talking about the fantasy of how ADHD looks or how its supposed to be, it's more about other people. A lot of people with ADHD believe that if its easy for them, they’re cheating. Because its supposed to be hard. Do most non-ADHD people think that way?  The debates are now that anxiety, bipolar disorder, OCD—these are neurological differences—they are also looking at causal factors to all these conditions that are not chosen. So is the only person who is ‘normal’ the person who has no feelings, reactions, or responses?  Someone who has no big responses to stimuli, someone who is antisocial? Isabelle does fall into the categorizing and black and white thinking, and how its a part of learning, to categorize and generalize. This is not dissimilar to how people talk about race, gender, and about culturally defined parts of experiences because we collectively make them a thing—maybe its myth making and collective storytelling. There is a gravitational pull to the idea of being neurotypical or mentally ‘well’ and then there’s good and bad. Isabelle wonders where the compassion goes? David speaks up—they have compassion. People are scared. People are scared and when we’re scared, we have a reflexive reactions. People have found safety or comfort in the label of ‘normal’ or ‘neurotypical,’ and they see difference as not good, and they’re really trying to, in their mind, help people in their messaging. Terror management theory: when you’re scared, you find a group of people who are like you and you band together to be less scared. So, there are a chunk of people out there who are getting very specific about who is in or out of the group.  David can have a lot of compassion for that fear, that fear about who gets to belong. But he also wants to speak to the neurodivergent person who is doing something you tell them will help—and it hurts them? It’s a real fear we carry. David uses the example of his mom—bless her heart (see the Southern US use of this phrase on many levels below)—who grew up being told the importance of having arch support in shoes, and so when David had flat feet, she had him use these inserts—David is not blaming his mom, she did the best she could—lots of people are told not to touch things, don’t go into the light. Every neurodivergent person has to have the fear “I’m doing this wrong, I’m in trouble, I’m doing something bad!” To little David: you know, you have flat feet, you have more stability around corners—but another voice would say “don’t tell anyone you have flat feet, it’s bad.” He has compassion for the fear people have that want everyone to be the same, to not stand out or be different, and there is also a fear that neurodivergent people sit with every day about whether or not they’re allowed to act the way they act. Isabelle names that the podcasters were saying “oh, these diagnoses are an excuse to then act in ways that are socially awkward.” Ahem. Isabelle describes how this feels like when she describes her inner workings to someone in all the steps she takes when she sits down next to someone, wondering if this is the right physical distance, is she staring at their eyebrows too long, is she pausing appropriately, etc.—and when she unmasks and reveals this, the person considers it a compliment to say “I couldn’t tell.” It’s the idea that someone outside of you knows more about your experience than you do. The way that diagnoses connect to power and gatekeeping for services and Isabelle makes the point that those who are saying “over diagnosis is dangerous”—to whom? On what planet are folks who are neurospicy getting enough of the supports and services and resources and access that they need? The system is already failing most of us. David names: this isn’t cancer, this isn’t people getting chemo erroneously. There is no danger in identification, it’s about getting our needs met. What do we do as a society to neglected people, and the more you know about your needs, the less of a danger being neglected becomes. This is a question of someone who knows a lot about things wandered over into another area and made bold statements without the expertise. Isabelle was extra miffed that she also dismissed the intersections of Autism, ADHD, POTS, hyper mobile Ehlers Danlos, and MCAS and ‘nonexistent’ —so damaging and harmful. These are real things, the interconnectedness of them is being actively researched, just because you are new to the party does not make something false or untrue. As David puts it, in the 70’s or 80’s, the APA took a vote to decide if being gay was good or bad, essentially (“do we keep gayness as a disorder?” Yes folks, this was that recently. GAH.). Now imagine someone was asleep for ten years and missed that memo and is now walking around looking at pride flags wondering “why are there so man...

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Are ADHD, autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders overdiagnosed? Is it all in our heads? Is self-diagnosis legit? Isabelle and David take some common stigmas and misperceptions to task and explore how labels and identities can help or hurt, how policing stigma when you're not a member of the group being stigmatized (or asking us what we need), and the huge weight our world puts on external, visible behaviors rather than internal pain, frustrations, and strengths.
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Isabelle references a podcast episode she listened to recently, Armchair Expert with guest Suzanne O’Sullivan on overdiagnosis. She brings up the idea of psychosomatic illness, and the example this epilepsy expert uses is that there are a certain percentage of cases of epilepsy that appear very different on brain scans, that appear to be psychologically caused (or psychosomatic). This is one of those confusing, stigmatized concepts—Isabelle would originally think that this means “made up.” But NO. What it means is that people are still experiencing the symptoms, are still suffering from symptoms of seizures, sometimes way worse than those who on EEGs, etc. appear to have ‘epilepsy.’ It is the opposite of ‘in your head,’ it is very real. The same goes for the placebo effect, which is that when they do studies on medications or treatments, they have people do something neutral or take a sugar pill or a pill with no active ingredients. A percentage of people in every case will see symptom improvement or a positive effect. This does not mean it’s made up, it means the mind is powerful and just because we don’t know how something works doesn’t mean it doesn’t bring relief. And the same goes with nocebo, or the way things can have an adverse or ill effect, too. But now David and Isabelle get to the other idea this author has, about how ADHD and autism and other diagnoses are being ‘over diagnosed,’ because, as the author states, autism used to mean something different than it does now, because now people later in life who are high masking are being diagnosed with it—and the cutoff points for diagnoses are being too muddled, and isn’t it (as the author puts it), “awful that kids will be labelled with these self-fulfilling prophecies” that will create limiting beliefs for them, isn’t it causing harm, can’t we meet kids needs without these labels? And more so, the cut off point should be “disablement.” But wait a minute, isn’t that pre-diabetes? But isn’t it like the biggest predictor of heroin use is milk consumption…because everyone who takes heroin used to drink milk. David wants to come at this. David wants more inclusive education, he doesn’t want smaller and smaller classrooms, and what to have a very diverse set of people in the room. A diverse group of people learning at once. To answer why do we need to label them? Because every person has different needs, we need labels to tailor education to each person. The more standardized it becomes the more it becomes marginalized. Stay in your lane, let people within the culture manage the stigma around the culture. “Can you just include someone from these communities?” A bunch of people talking about us and deciding what’s harming us without talking to us. Isabelle refers back to psychopharmacology and psychopathology class—you gotta learn a ton about diagnostic criteria and learn how to categorize the experiences of people your seeing. Isabelle’s professor was a neuropsychologist and was very into accurate language. You can look at diagnoses from a couple of different angles—why do we diagnosis? We need to have a standardized understanding of a group of experiences, so when we talk about it we all say “this is the part that we mean.” There needs to be some kind of shared consensus around what ADHD means. Cut off points could be true for insurance purposes, political, and financial, and for research and understanding, and it also is not all encompassing—but if you accurately sync a person up to a diagnosis, it gives them an understanding of a person that helps them. Everyone isn’t self-diagnosing. It’s the people who resonate with the experiences of those who are AuDHD or autistic or an ADHDer. David names that he loves the podcast (as does Isabelle, she’s a big archerry) and that the people on this podcast are falling into something society does, not necessarily leading society there, which is validating external manifestations of pain rather than internal frustration. David leans on the work of Marcus Soutra, with the idea that perhaps instead of thinking of things as diagnoses, it's more of an identification. We’re accurately identifying people.  Isabelle further details that they mention that mental health diagnoses go up when mental health awareness is spread. To which she wonders—what about how psychoeducation and awareness allow for people to be more vulnerable and feel safe disclosing what's really going on, internally? The example that ‘doesn’t everyone have a little ADHD’ is—-wrong. Nope, Not everyone. But maybe those who have untreated ADHD do? And with the example of Bill Gates identifying as autistic, and the author naming that she doesn’t see him as having struggles or disability, again, a very external definition—they have no clue about what he has gone through or what it is like to go through life not fully understanding yourself without such an identity. Autism and ADHD is not necessarily a learning difference 

Armchair Expert episode Isabelle is referencing

Suzanne O'Sullivan's book, The Age of Diagnosis

USEFUL DEFINITIONS
Psychosomatic - a word that literally means "mind" and "body" -- where stress or worry make a symptom or condition develop, get worse, or show up in the first place. While common usage means we often think this is saying "it's all in your head,"or that it's not real---it's saying the opposite: it's saying that the mind has such a powerful effect that it can cause real physical pain and suffering and that illnesses and all kinds of conditions can have many different causes. This does not mean what you're experiencing is not real, it means we now understand that stressors and emotions and our minds can connect to a number of health conditions. See here for more (Source: Cleveland Clinic).

Placebo effect - the way a sugar pill or random remedy (used in clinical research trials for a medication, let's say, or a 'fake surgery' in surgical trials, where nothing is implanted or changed) produces symptom relief and improvement as if it were a real pill or real surgically-altering procedure. This means that the person experiences actual change, again, that is not explained by the treatment or pill being studied. We don't fully understand why this is, but we know it's there, and it likely has something to do with a person's expectations of whether something could help them. It has a big impact on research and neuroscience in general. See here for more (Source: NIH 2023)

Nocebo effect - opposite from placebo, where a person's negative expectations play out when given a sugar pill or 'sham' surgery and their symptoms get worse even thought they did not receive any medicine or treatment that would give them side effects. See here for more (Source: NIH 2012).

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Let's revisit a bunch of neurodivergent folx reminiscing about what it was like growing up (and being diagnosed with) ADHD in the 90's. Featuring some real gems about accommodations for reading, what hyperfocus can feel like, and stuff about Richard Dreyfuss.
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Isabelle & David welcome Isabelle’s husband, Bobby, and David’s childhood friend, Ashley, who both also have ADHD. Ashley shares that she was diagnosed with ADHD back in ’94 when understanding of ADHD was still in its early days and accommodations like audio books and extended time for test taking were new(er). The group describes what reading looks like, including eye tracking issues connected to ADHD—and the levels of accommodations they each use, including highlighters, white noise, audiobooks, etc. One way of handling a breakup is to mouth the words to the song that's playing while you're being dumped. Other accommodations to encourage hyperfocus on reading also include listening to older instrumental music, and matching beats per minute to the task you're doing. The advantages of continuous play on music platforms (like Spotify, not a sponsor) and the rabbit holes you can get lost in. Bobby’s tangent on a gem of a comedy album (see below). The group also discusses other labels that you can gather along the way with ADHD; David was labelled as having behavior problems, skipping class, acting out. Bobby experienced the world as Ferris Buehler and his response to being bullied was to work the system to get the bullies to leave you alone. How impulsivity can help you work the system or leave you hanging. The idea of either not trying to make waves or making waves when none are around. The message David got was that there was something wrong with him. The white privilege of an ADHD diagnosis, as opposed to being labeled oppositional defiant. 

Name of Bobby’s find (click for a link to a youtube video): I Wanna Meet Richard Dreyfuss by Gabriel Gundacker

Eye tracking issues (related to ADHD): Typical issues that can impair reading are related to either impulsively (jumping to a wrong line) or attention issues related to thinking about off topic things while reading. Click here for more.

DAVID’S DEFINITIONS:

IMPOSTER SYNDROME is the belief you don't belong/are bad, or that you have to be perfect on the outside along with the fear you will be found out/exposed and people will know you're a mess on the inside. 

OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT (Disorder, AKA ODD) is a clinical diagnosis that is applied to children marked by intentional acts of disobedience, and conflicts with authority. This diagnosis is much different than a diagnosis of ADHD, although some parts of ADHD can be oppositional in nature, they are not truly rooted in fighting Authority, as much as the rooted in finding agency. For example, a person with ADHD may find themselves fighting an authority figure because they took a candy bar they were eating and want the candy bar back. A person with ODD would fighting the authority figure because they were an authority figure, forgetting about the candy bar.

RESPONSE COST is understanding the consequences of our actions, later down the road.

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cover art by: Sol Vázquez
technical support by: Bobby Richards

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So with news articles and headlines about how folks with ADHD need to get off their meds or go outside or be 'cured', there's something of a big misunderstanding and gaps in perspectives on ADHD and what it actually means. Including our shared values as a real ADHD culture, especially around how people or authority figures will relate to us. David and Isabelle describe some of the shared values in neurodivergent or ADHD culture, including ideas around masking, disclosing, lateral thinking, and questioning authority--and whether you believe that others, particularly those in power, will help you or understand you. Exploring many aspects of the neurodivergent community--and how groups form--ADHDers (more likely than the average bear) identify as members of LGBTQ+ communities, members of nontraditional or non-dominant faith groups, entrepreneurs, tech-friendly folx, and members of the military, to start. From recognizing that there are stages and phases to feeling like you can both belong and be unique, to the power of community in developing a sense of self-esteem, the need to have metacognition (or an understanding of WHY a thing is or how it works for you).
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David starts by naming that within a neurodivergent or ADHD culture, there are shared values. And what we believe might be impacted by our approach to masking and our context—did we have to mask a lot? Do we need masking or not? But it also asks us: do we believe that people will help us? That schools will help us? That people with power or systemic power will support us or understand us?  David doesn't think that trust in these systems is high in the ADHD population. A lot of people don’t feel like they can trust the system and it might be why we don’t disclose, we don’t share, we don’t ask. We are a subgroup, but we are not substandard. Lots of wars being waged on ADHD, and that entire perspective ignores the things that are important. Since David joined Eye to Eye years ago and joined the ND community, he watched graduation rates go up, he’d give talks in a room and ask “who has adhd?” And no one would raise their hand. “Does it feel wrong to be asked?” And now when you talk about it in a group, people raise their hands right away. There is the good work. There is a cultural war on ADHD. Isabelle names that one of the strengths of ADHD, which is important to include in any future articles, is that we think ‘creatively,’ also known as lateral or divergent thinking. We don’t necessarily follow a linear thought process and skip around  think laterally or divergently. For her fellow AuDHDers, Isabelle recognizes that she does want clarity and often tries to go back to a linear though process to make sure she’s understanding something clearly. But in general, the lateral thinking—lends itself to questioning authority, taking multiple perspectives, playing devil’s advocate, which doesn’t necessarily mean that people feel comfortable sharing this. There’s a larger percentage of us that identify as queer or LGBTQ+ communities, nonbinary, gender fluid—there’s also a larger percentage of us that its int he military, tech community, entrepreneurs. We tolerate risk differently. David names that this allows us a different way of recognizing our needs. If the rest of the world tells you something should meet your needs but it doesn’t, you’re going to maybe go back to the drawing board and start to think about things a little differently. You may be a more natural out of the box thinker, because of a lack of neural pruning. More doesn’t mean better, and it doesn’t mean worse. It’s not a a hierarchy. Just acknowledging it exists gives people a place to belong. Isabelle describes the stages of building a group—we first debate if we want to join, we norm and create a share a set of values and create a cohesion, and then the strength of the group’s cohesiveness is tested and retested with storming and questioning and then you come to the place where you are both an individual and belong, that both can coexist dynamically. Even in Isabelle’s own process of joining this group of neurodivergence, when she cried at the mailboxes with David, she is feeling this with the autistic side of her, and she’s seeing it everywhere and she deeply wants to belong, and then she’s questioning or noticing the differences, and then she’s cozy in being different and yet belonging. David names how important self esteem is for us; and we can’t really develop self esteem alone, it helps you to see others who get it and can resonate with you. Three most important factors: self esteem, ability to advocate for your needs, and metacognition (understand we do what we do). You shouldn’t have to try so hard to ‘fit into’ a culture, it should be more natural. Isabelle names how metacognition, or changing your operating instructions, gives you a chance to reframe your own history, your present and your plans, and your needs are different than what you realized. Referencing the NYT article about ADHD meds—if you have no concept of what medication is doing for you or connecting with your medication, it's like you’re fueling yourself up with a really good fuel source and you have no direction to put it in. David wants a formalized response to the NYTimes article. A formal round table. 

The strengths of ADHD — see Dr. Holly White's work at the University of Michigan (Scientific American article)

• Divergent or lateral thinking - probably most commonly called "brainstorming," it's when you generate multiple ideas, applications, solutions, problems, and hop around instead of just focusing on one answer--see this interesting guide from the University of Texas at Austin that helps teachers learn how to ENCOURAGE divergent thinking in their students.  
• How divergent thinking is connected to creativity (study)

As well as addressing self esteem and practicing self-advocacy, work with ADHD means developing:

Metacognition — thinking about your thinking, or why you do what you do. It’s like understanding you’ve been handled incorrect or inapplicable instructions. Knowing why you need an accommodation and why it helps. It involves an awareness as well as an ability to regulate/choose a strategy (eg. changing how you study for a particular test). (source: Wikipedia).
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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez

Technical Support by: Bobby Richards

Here's a nifty little promo code for those who either delayed gratification or who let this episode run through to the end because they were busy vacuumin...

Check out the collection of fidgets Team Shiny loves! 

Isabelle and David talk 'stimming'-AKA "Self-stimulating behavior": what is this word, where does it come from, and what does it mean to 'stim'? Perhaps spoken of more in the autism community, stimming applies to ADHD also, and can connect to not just how we use sensory inputs as ballasts or balance systems, but also unique indicators of a ADHD culture of our own. David and Isabelle dig deep with some adorable sneezes, more on the ballast systems of ships, and the tail expressions of animals along the way.
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David and Isabelle describe how cat and dog tails are completely different in indicating their state. David’s cat was so still with just the tip of its tail bobbing back and forth, and David pointed out that that’s how you can tell a cat is happy. Which is the exact opposite of how you can tell a dog is happy, with an exuberantly wagging tail. And maybe this relates a little bit to stimming, in that someone might interpret Isabelle’s bouncing leg as an indication of one internal state, when actually she is stimming and feeling very calm as she does it. There could be two ADHD camps here: one for dogs, one for cats. Perhaps most ADHDers would align with dogs, as in we tend to vibrate when we’re happy. David knows when he’s still and quiet he is very alert and something’s wrong. Isabelle’s dog is currently whining at the door and she is like her dog in that she gives her all her needs and yet she has more needs? Isabelle is curious about internal stimming, like when she ruminates or revisits things in her head to self-stimulated. David talks about this as acting in or acting out, and maybe he’s doing some action, or he’s thinking or connecting with an internal world. Stimming is thought of as an action, that is repetitive or relieving in some way. Acting in and acting out was something David was naming 20 years ago, but now we use the term “stimming” — and it’s doing something to keep your heart rate up. Isabelle did not see it used around ADHD but it does connect, but she sees it a lot around AuDHD — it comes from diagnostic origins, but the function of it is what David describes as exhaust. If his engine is running, there’s going to be something going on somewhere. Slowly picking at a nail, feeling the tension of his pants, something to help him regulate his attention—like a ballast. This sends Isabelle off on a tangent about being a tween going to see “Titanic” because she was into boat architecture after seeing documentaries about the Titanic about the ships ballast getting flooded—the idea that you have these big walls that are designed to bring on some water  in order to balance the ship. Isabelle walks around with Trex arms, and it’s like she is letting some of the world in and that helps her pick what’s coming at her on a sensory level, because she can’t really tune out the rest anyway, it's like taking in some stimulation to stay afloat. David describes how other ballasts could be biting down on leather when getting an amputation. If you give your body something to do it can distract it. While Isabelle isa bout to go on a tangent about pain theory, her dog needs to go outside, and so indeed, behavior is communication. Now David sneezes. And it’s adorable. And he has to fight the reflex to not say “F you” back, because he has sneezed adorably for a long time now and his friend David C. Would always tease him and so he’d respond lovingly with an “F you!” And so he now needs to describe it all. David then segue ways to a definition of culture. Isabelle studied anthropology and archaeology in college, and remembers a professor saying that you know a culture exists when there is an in-group and an out-group and that culture is a set of adaptations to a human’s environment. For example, chimpanzees, they stick a twig in a termite mound and then they eat the termites, and thinking about it archaeologically that a being used a thing to do something that nature did not use it for, so when archaeologists speak of a culture its around distinct patterns of how things were made and the area where people lived in. If we were archaeologists of the future, if we came back to earth, could we notice distinct enough artifacts that would indicate there is some difference in this group? Or we could think of it as a series of adaptations for the environments in which we find ourselves. Referencing the NYTimes article, the parts we can resonate with, ADHD is about so many more things than that. So dysregulating because it’s 70% accurately, you just left out so many important details and experts and points—that thing that pains Isabelle is that this article is so long and takes so much energy to digest and is just an aspect of the book. David points out that it states that medicine has diminishing returns, because OF COURSE it doesn’t mention that medication is intended to be used with therapy and of course the medication doesn’t help you with the self esteem repair or accommodation strategies so in a vacuum you get diminishing returns. Isabelle is so on board and also frustrated that this is coming at a time when the world is extra scary and intense. David names that he thinks we would see signs of ADHD culture--organizing in piles, the sheer volume of fidget spinners, etc. Isabelle agrees, the material culture alone would create an interesting set of indicators that something different is happening in certain households that is unique and also in common with one another.

Stimming (aka "Self-Stimulatory Behavior) -originally attributed to autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but also occurs in neurodivergent AND neurotypical or allistic (non-autistic) folks. It means repetitive physical movements, sounds, or actions that someone engages in (aka leg bouncing, finger tapping, hand flapping, twirling hair, humming, repeating words, staring, pacing, doodling, playing with fidgets, chewing gum, smelling or touching things..so many stims!).

Useful for: so many things! For when your senses are overloaded or your understimulated, can help you focus and concentrate, can be a way to learn about or interact with your environment, or to cope with anxiety, stress, excitement, or big feels.

Culture (Source: Oxford Language Dictionary): "the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group." OR, "anthropologically, culture is defined as a complex, shared system of learned beliefs, values, behaviors, and symbols that allows a group of people to understand and interact with the world. It's a dynamic, evolving set of practices and ideas that shape a group's identity and way of life" (from sapiens.org)

The notorious NY Times article ("Are we thinking about ADHD all wrong?" by Paul Tough) David and Isabelle are referencing

Chimpanzees eating termites like a lollipop (AKA chimps having a material culture)

Ballast: YES these are compartments designed to be flooded and dispense with water to help balance a ships weight and regulate how buoyant it is in water (how it floats) (see Wikipedia definition of "Ballast Tank" for more) AND

Check out the collection of fidgets Team Shiny loves! 

Isabelle finishes sharing her neuropsych results, including recommendations for ADHD and autism (HINT: unmask! WHAT?) From the categorization of ADHD like a storm warning system (Mild/moderate/severe) to how job interviews might be the one place to mask (and how David does his interviews), David and Isabelle spelunk around how certain measures, like empathy, are not 'markers' of autism in the way we may think.  Share your favorite fidgets with us! Go to somethingshinypodcast.com/fidgetlove now!

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Isabelle goes into greater detail about how her neuropsychological assessment was able to show her how she initiates and sustains auditory and visual attention and a little bit on processing speed. But to get more data, she’d need to undergo testing designed for people with traumatic brain injuries or strokes or dementia—what? It's a little strange to realize that the gold standard for learning more about brain functioning as a grown up with ADHD is the same that’s used for brain injuries.  David points out that he uses the word neurodivergent intentionally, in order to point out that there is a diversity of brains, rather than a deficiency or something wrong with you. There are brains that work well in crisis and brains that work well when things are calm. Doesn’t that make sense? Would we say that someone would be “severely apt” at handling chaos? Maybe, you just do what you’re good at? Isabelle goes back to the scale of mild/moderate/severe ADHD—mild reads as boring, moderate—moderation SUCKS—all the words for the scale are poor. David names: if you can’t use the words to apply to “happiness” —it’s a bad scale for humans. Would you say you are ‘mildly or severely happy?” Probably not. So maybe we use different words for humans. People with ADHD are not storms and do not require storm warnings (last time we checked). As part of her neuropsychological evaluation, Isabelle got pages and pages of recommendations for next steps. She got a lot of great data, and also realized that one episode of Something Shiny provides more—so that was affirming and helpful in terms of the work the podcast and its community are doing. Her evaluator left off her autism recommendations, sending them along later, but said, essentially, the only recommendation is to unmask more. That “the only place masking is helpful is in job interviews.” Other than that it’s harmful. It takes energy, it burns people out, it’s hard. Isabelle then goes on to rant about how biased job interviews are, unless you’re giving case examples—but then, David is also super good at job interviews. He checks—did you go to high school or college? Cool, you must be smart. Then, do you want to work with him? Check. Then, would he want to hang out with this person? Yup. And finally, a bunch of curveballs to see how people think on their feet. Because that helps you see how people think and how they communicate about their problem solving, which is good data. Then David names that there are questions he’d love to ask about people that he can’t, beyond the protected class questions about age or location or self-identity—he wishes he could ask if someone is neurodivergent or if someone in their family is neurodivergent, that is an asset to David. He sees the ability to think outside the box in order to do what they do. But he knows he’s not trusted, most hiring people are lying to you, employers are anxious, you’re not going to like them. Every employer is terrified of rejection, it’s so complicated. But he sees neurodiversity and awareness of that as a major plus—if somebody understands that and has self-esteem around it, knows what accommodations they need, they are curious about that. Isabelle has such a bias for self-insight—she wonders, how someone who was so socially off the rhythm of her peers, how was it that she had a lot of high measures for sensory things, but high measures on empathy? Which seems odd, because all of the autistic people Isabelle knows have off the charts empathy, which David concurs. Like the empathy for the crushed ant on the sidewalk. This is so true for Isabelle, she remembers crying for hours about a three-legged hamster she saw in a pet store named “Tiny Tim”—in retrospect, his paw was probably chewed off by his littermates or his mom because hamsters are ROUGH like that—but her mom told her he was okay because he was “fat”—to be fair, she was fatphobic and Polish immigrant mentality an maybe also autistic herself, but she was so distraught. She used to track one ant walking all the way to its hill to make sure it made it because she felt personally responsible for seeing that it was okay. She was so scared she’d look at it later and wonder if she wasn’t autistic—but the stakes were so high, she was scared of not having the community she felt like she was on the cusp of having and understanding. As David puts it: "we will fight for worth and identity." Even more so, Isabelle learns that her own stereotype about autism meaning she is low empathy (even indicated on the 'measures' of autism on the assessments she took) is where she doesn't 'meet criteria' for autism, and how that would keep her up at night. Until her neuropsychiatrist pointed out: it has more to do with a snapshot of where you are and your accommodations. Of course someone who is in their 40's, has been high masking their whole life, and who special interests in humans AKA psychology would be high on empathy measures--she wasn't like this as a kid but it took decades for her to 'get it.' And what a revelation, that autism and empathy are not what we stereotypically assume they might be!

Also, send us photos or links to your fave fidgets! We'll put 'em on our website and share the fidget love. 

DEFINITIONS

Note: “Neuropsych” is shorthand for BOTH a neuropsychological assessment or a neuropsychologist (which is confusing).

Neuropsychologist is "an expert in how brain injuries and conditions affect your behavior, mood and thinking skills. They perform neuropsychological evaluations to assess how your brain and mind are working and suggest treatment plans." (Source: Cleveland Clinic).

A neuropsychological assessment is a series of interviews and tests (computer, written, drawing, solving puzzles, etc. no magnets, radiation, electrodes, or medical procedures involved) — the type of test is based on what is being explored. This battery (or collection) of tests, often done across multiple sessions, help a neuropsychologist determine a psychological diagnosis, treatment plan, and get a sense of how your brain works. Typically recommended by school systems/medical system to assess kids to help figure out what learning differences and accommodations may be helpful, but these assessments are not just for kids! Adults can use them to gain self-understanding, establish a baseline (if dementia or high-risk contact sports play is involved), or even figure out what parts of your brain have been injured or might be affected by brain surgery. Because kids grow and development so much, they are often redone every 2-4 years. Here’s more on neuropsychological assessments from the Cleveland Clinic.

Masking: when neurodivergent individuals pretend to be neur...