When you're grieving, "Take care of yourself," might be the last thing you want to hear. So what does self-care actually look like for a parent or caregiver who is grieving? Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, MA, who coordinates the Pathways Program at Dougy Center for families facing an advanced serious illness, joins us to share practical tools for caregivers who are trying to balance taking care of others with tending to themselves, along with crucial advice for friends and family who want to provide truly meaningful support.

We discuss:

• The many roles caregivers hold before and after a death

• Balancing others' needs while grieving yourself

• How adults and kids experience grief differently

• When the surviving parent had a complicated relationship with the person who died

• Simple, doable self-care for caregivers

• What real, helpful support looks like from friends and community

• Learning how to ask for and accept help

Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, M.A., is the Pathways Program & Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center, The National Grief Center for Children & Families.

When Leena Magdi's younger brother, Hamoodi, was killed, her world shifted entirely. In her debut book Mourning Air, Leena explores how grief reshapes identity, faith, and love. In this conversation, Leena shares what it meant and means to be Hamoodi's sister, how sibling grief is often dismissed, and how writing helps her navigate the grief. Leena also shares about her family's forced displacement after war broke out in Sudan less than a year after Hamoodi's death - and how she's learning to grieve both her brother and her home.

We discuss:

• What it means to be a sister after a sibling dies
• The invisibility of sibling grief
• Finding connection through spirituality and writing
• Grieving a home and a country - and the additional losses her family experienced in fleeing to Egypt from Sudan after war broke out
• How Leena stays connected to Hamoodi

About Leena Magdi: Leena Magdi is a Sudanese-American writer and poet, author of Mourning Air, and mother of two. She was born in Sudan, raised in California, and currently lives in Egypt. You can find her on Instagram @xleenamagdix and TikTok @xleenamagdix.

When someone you know dies suddenly, everything changes in an instant. The world you once knew can feel unfamiliar and unsafe, and finding your way back to even the smallest sense of stability can feel impossible.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Jennifer Levin, therapist, educator, podcast host, and author of The Traumatic Loss Workbook: Powerful Skills for Navigating the Grief Caused by a Sudden or Unexpected Death. Jennifer specializes in supporting people grieving sudden or unexpected deaths that can completely upend how we see the world and shift our sense of safety.

We discuss:

• The differences and overlap between the terms: sudden, unexpected, and traumatic
• How grief affects the body, mind, and nervous system
• What it means when the "assumptive world" - our sense of how life should work - is shattered
• Ways to support yourself when sensory memories of the death are overwhelming
• How schools and workplaces can better prepare and respond when a community member dies

About the Guest: Dr. Jennifer Levin is a grief therapist, educator, and host of the Untethered podcast. She's the founder of Traumatic Grief Solutions and the creator of The Traumatic Loss Online Companion Course. Her new book, The Traumatic Loss Workbook, is available now from New Harbinger Publications.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Traumatic Loss Workbook by Dr. Jennifer Levin
• The Grieving Brain by Mary-Frances O'Connor
• I Wasn't Ready to Say Goodbye by Brook Noel, Pamela D Blair PhD
• Dougy Center resources for supporting children, families, and schools: dougy.org

When Tiriq Rashad, artist, poet, and performer, sits down to write, he's not just telling his own story - he's carrying his daughter, his brother, and his mother with him. In this conversation, Tiriq shares the layered ways grief has shaped who he is: from the death of his first child before she was born, to growing up caring for his brother who lived with cerebral palsy and autism, to the sudden death of his mother.

Through it all, Tiriq's foundation in caregiving, service, and community continues to guide him - both in his personal life and in his art. His new album, Kiss My Art, is woven through with grief, including themes of regret, forgiveness, and deep unwavering love. Each track on Kiss My Art reminds listeners that grief doesn't end, it evolves and we evolve with it.

We talk about:

• How the death of his daughter shapes his life perspective – and his parenting.
• How caregiving for his brother as a child set him on the path to social work.
• The trauma and legacy of his mother's death in a car accident.
• Choosing to face grief without leaning on vices.
• Writing and performing as practices of healing.
• How the death of a public figure can impact those who never even met them.

Connect with Tiriq Rashad:

• Website: tiriqrashad.com
• Instagram: @tiriq_rashad
• No Regrets Official Music Video

When Tyler Feder was 19, her mom died of cancer, an experience she captured years later in her bestselling graphic memoir Dancing at the Pity Party. In the years since, Tyler has described herself as a "dead mom person" - reflecting just how much of her life was shaped by the death of her mother. But this past winter, Tyler's dad also died, adding a new aspect to her identity, this time as an adult orphan.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The contrast between her parents' personalities – mom (quiet, creative, cat-like), dad (gregarious, emotional, dog-like) - and which of those aspects Tyler carries forward in hers.
• How writing, art, and community help her process grief.
• One of Tyler's favorite questions about her parents.
• Why tangible keepsakes matter so much.
• The difference having a parent die when you're still a teenager vs an adult.
• How her family approached her father's illness and death compared to her mom's.
• Living with worry and fear about her own health and mortality.

Follow Tyler's work on Instagram @tylerfeder.

In 1986, when Kristine S. Ervin was eight years old, her mother was abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered in Oklahoma. Decades later, Kristine tells her story in Rabbit Heart - A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Story, a memoir weaves together her fragmented childhood memories, growing up with grief, and then as an adult, reckoning with the painful details of her mother's death. The course of the book shifts when there is a break in the cold case of her mother's murder, leading to a trial and eventual conviction of Kyle Eckhart, one of the men responsible.

In this conversation Kristine reflects on what it means to grieve for her mother and for the violent way she died. She explores the power of imagination in grief, the struggle of piecing together memories shaped by others, and how writing became both an outlet and a way to preserve a connection to her mother.

Together, Jana and Kristine talk about:

• What she remembers about her mother and which of those memories are shaped by what others remember.
• How Kristine reacted to media portrayals of her mother's life and death.
• What she remembers about learning her mother was abducted and then the day she found out she was murdered.
• What it was like to grow up not knowing who killed her mother.
• The story behind the title of her memoir, Rabbit Heart.
• The role of imagination and fantasy in both childhood and adult grief.
• The emotional impact of learning new, violent details about her mother's death, and how this knowledge changed Kristine's relationship with her grief over time.
• How the publication of Rabbit Heart allowed her to connect with her mother's memory in a new way.

Content note: this episode includes details of violence, sexual assault, and murder, along with some adult language. Please listen with care.

Kristine Ervin grew up in a small suburb of Oklahoma City and is now an associate professor at West Chester University, outside Philadelphia. She holds an MFA in Poetry from New York University and a Ph.D. in Creative Writing and Literature, with a focus in nonfiction, from the University of Houston. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in Fourth Genre, Crimereads, Crab Orchard Review, Brevity, Passages North, and Silk Road. Her essay "Cleaving To," was named a notable essay in the Best American Essays 2013. Kristine's debut memoir Rabbit Heart is currently available from Counterpoint Press.

When someone dies, the story is often one of sadness, longing, and loss. But what happens when the person who died was also someone who caused great harm? For Kathy, who was sexually and emotionally abused by her father, his death when she was 11 brought more relief than grief.

In this conversation, Kathy shares how her early experiences with grief and trauma shaped her path as a social worker and volunteer, including her current work with teens and tweens who are grieving.

We explore:

• What it was like to have her dad die while carrying the painful secret about his abuse
• The mixed emotions of grieving someone who caused great harm
• How volunteering gave Kathy a sense of purpose and visibility at a young age
• The importance of creating space for young people - and adults - to share the full range of feelings about the person who died, including the hard and complicated ones
• What Kathy would want her 11-year-old self, and other kids in similar situations, to know

Kathy's story broadens our understanding of grief, reminding us that it's never one-dimensional, and that sometimes, relief outweighs grief.

Note: this episode includes references to childhood sexual and emotional abuse.

How do we move from seeing grief as something to fix or overcome, to understanding it as a lifelong companion and guide? In this conversation with Rev. Dr. Jamie Eaddy CT, CTP - educator, death doula, founder of Thoughtful Transitions, and creative force behind The Ratchet Grief Project® - she invites us to reimagine grief as a friend who helps us navigate loss, change, and transition. Drawing from her personal lineage of grief through the deaths of her grandmother, cousin, and uncle, Dr. J. shares how these experiences shaped her work supporting individuals and communities, especially those living at the intersections of marginalization and oppression.

We explore:

• How personal experiences with family deaths shaped Dr. Eaddy's career path
• Redefining grief beyond death - as our natural response to loss, change, transition, unmet expectations, unrealized dreams, and shattered assumptions
• The concept of "befriending grief" - viewing grief as a companion and guide rather than something to overcome
• The Ratchet Grief Project® - creating space for marginalized communities to grieve authentically without conforming to restrictive societal expectations
• How racism, sexism, and systemic oppression create additional layers of grief for Black communities
• The harmful expectations of "acceptable" grief
• Current trends in grief work, including the rise of death doulas and increased awareness of non-death losses
• Unlearning narratives around strength, silence, and emotional suppression
• The importance of reclaiming parts of ourselves - like joy - that get left behind in survival

To learn more:

1. Follow Dr. J. @drjamieeaddy on IG.
2. Visit Thoughtful Transitions
3. Stay tuned for The Ratchet Grief Project coming Fall, 2025

Welcome to a special "podcast takeover" episode. This week, Lindsey Whissel Fenton, creator of Speaking Grief and Learning Grief, steps in to interview Jana. Their conversation centers on Jana's beloved Boston Terrier, Captain, who died in December 2024 at the age of 15. Lindsey understands this heartache well, as her own sweet dog, Birch, died in May 2022. As a skilled interviewer and a thoughtful friend in grief, Lindsey was the perfect person to explore Jana's experience of loving and grieving for Captain.

Together, Lindsey and Jana delve into how Captain came into Jana's life, the complexities of caregiving for an aging pet, the difficult decisions surrounding their end-of-life, and the subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways pet grief can be minimized or dismissed, by others and sometimes even by us.

This conversation weaves between the personal and professional, touching on:

• How Captain became a cherished part of Jana's life
• The physical and behavioral changes Captain experienced in his last two years
• Navigating personal loss as a grief professional
• The challenging dynamics of deciding when and how to say goodbye
• Captain's last day
• Jana's evolving relationship with Captain's belongings
• Expressing grief through writing and sharing on Instagram (@Captain_the_Furpig)
• The struggle of making space for pet grief within a field primarily focused on human loss
• How grief rituals evolve over time, and the importance of allowing ourselves permission for these changes

A quick content note: we'll be discussing end-of-life caregiving for a pet, including the decision-making process around euthanasia. We know these are tender topics, so please take care as you listen.

The resource we mention: Supporting Children & Teens After the Death of a Pet or Companion Animal

Lindsey Whissel Fenton, MEd, CT (she/her) is an Emmy award-winning filmmaker, international speaker, and grief educator. In her current role as a senior producer/director and instructional designer at PBS/NPR affiliate WPSU, Lindsey focuses on projects related to grief, trauma, and mental health. She is the creator of Speaking Grief and Learning Grief, founder of Empathic Media, and serves on the Board of Directors for the National Alliance for Children's Grief (NACG). She's also an instructional designer and content creator for the Yale Child Study Center's Grief-Sensitive Healthcare Project. Lindsey earned her bachelor's degree in Cinema and Digital Arts from Point Park University, her master's degree in Learning, Design, and Technology from Penn State, and is Certified in Thanatology through the Association for Death Education and Counseling (ADEC). She's a dog mom, avid reader, and rock climber.

When Susie and Nick Shaw's nine-year-old son William died in a skiing accident, their world shifted permanently. In the six years since that day, they've found ways to carry their grief and stay connected to William, while continuing to honor the boy who inspired so much good in their lives and in their community.

In this deeply moving conversation, Susie and Nick reflect on William's life—his empathy, his humor, and the motto he created for himself in the year before he died: "Be Yourself." A simple but powerful phrase that inspired their nonprofit, William's Be Yourself Challenge.

Together, we discuss:

• The day William died and what they've come to understand about control, safety, and loss

• Navigating grief as individuals and as a couple

• Supporting their son Kai in grieving for his brother

• Raising Bodhi, their child who was born after William's death

• Creating family rituals, including monthly taco nights and birthday celebrations

• Returning to Big Sky, Montana to visit the spot where William died and reclaim their love of skiing

• Their new project, The Greenhouse, a house for families who are grieving to take a break from daily life

Whether you're a parent or a caregiver who's grieving, a supporter of one, or someone walking alongside a family coping with heartbreaking grief, this conversation highlights the power of honesty, connection, and intentional grief work.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of child death, trauma, and detailed descriptions of the day William died.

More from Susie & Nick:

• Susie's writing: Dear William Substack

• Susie on IG: @bereavementmom

• Nick's book: My Teacher, My Son

• Learn more: WilliamsBeYourselfChallenge.org

• Donate or get involved with The Greenhouse Project: WBYCgiving.org