In this deeply moving episode we talked with Myra Sack about the love, loss, and legacy of her daughter, Havi. Diagnosed with Tay-Sachs disease at just 15 months old, Havi's life was brief but profoundly impactful. Myra shares how she and her family navigated the unbearable reality of their daughter's illness and death, including transforming their Shabbat ritual into "Shabbirthdays" held every Friday to celebrate Havi's life.  

Myra reflects on the arduous medical rollercoaster that led to Havi's Tay-Sachs diagnosis, the challenges of navigating a world that struggles to support the bereaved, and how she and her family find solace in sharing Havi's legacy with others. She also discusses her memoir, Fifty-Seven Fridays, and how she started E-Motion, Inc. an organization that harnesses movement, community, and ritual to support those who are grieving.  

We discuss: 

• The ongoing presence of grief, particularly during milestone moments and everyday life. 

• How Myra and her husband Matt created the Shabbirthday ritual to honor Havi each week.  

• How Havi continues to teach others even after her death. 

• The impact of isolation for grieving families and the struggle of navigating social norms post-diagnosis. 

• Finding ways to stay connected to Havi through rituals, storytelling, and shared memories. 

• Myra's journey into grief education and the founding of E-Motion, which supports people who are grieving through movement and community.  

• The need for more grief-informed communities. 

Resources & Links: 

• Fifty-Seven Fridays by Myra Sack 

• E-Motion

• What Happened to You? By Bruce D. Perry & Oprah Winfrey

Connect With Us: Have thoughts on this episode? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected] or visit our website for more resources and past episodes. 

What does it mean to live with an incurable illness while navigating grief, time, and the complexity of human connection? In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we sit down with Caroline Catlin—writer, artist, and grief care worker—to explore her experience of living with an incurable brain cancer diagnosis. 

Caroline shares how her relationship with cancer has evolved over the past six years, from the early days of fighting for a diagnosis to the ongoing reality of regular scans and the uncertainty of what’s next. She speaks candidly about anticipatory grief, the way mortality shapes her daily life, and how her work in end-of-life photography and peer grief support informs her perspective on loss. 

We also discuss: 

• The impact of a life-altering diagnosis on friendships and relationships 

• How people can better support those living with illness 

• The intersection of living with illness and supporting grieving children 

• The unique grief of knowing time is limited—and learning to live within it 

Caroline also shares about her grief writing workshops, her creative process, and how gardening has become a grounding practice for her. 

Connect with Caroline: 

• Website: carolinecatlin.com 

• Instagram: @mybodyofwater 

• Grief writing workshops: Sliding scale, open to all 

For more resources and to connect with Grief Out Loud, visit Dougy Center. 

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we welcome back Carla Fernandez, co-founder of The Dinner Party, to talk about her new book, Renegade Grief, in which she explores the question: "Now what? What are we supposed to do after someone dies?" Carla reflects on the death of her father, the unconventional paths she’s taken to process her grief, and how The Dinner Party came together from a desire to create non-traditional spaces for young adults navigating loss.

In this conversation we delve into the dominant narratives around grief — and how the few that do exist may not fit for most of us. From potluck meals to altar building, Carla shares creative ways people can honor their grief and build community at the same time.

We discuss:

• The inspiration behind Renegade Grief and why Carla wished this book existed when her dad died.
• How traditional grief support spaces often don’t work for young adults.
• The origin story of The Dinner Party, and how one dinner with friends who “get it” can change everything.
• Why food, memory, and grief are so deeply intertwined.
• The myth that grief gets “easier after the first year” — and why year two can be even harder.
• Grief rituals and care practices for both early grief and the long haul.
• Creating identity-based grief spaces, like LGBTQ+ and BIPOC tables, and why specificity matters in grief support.
• Finding joy, creativity, and unexpected connection through grief (without forced positivity).

Carla Fernandez is the co-founder of The Dinner Party, a community-driven organization that brings together grieving young adults for potluck dinners and meaningful conversations about life after loss. Her new book, Renegade Grief, is a practical and heartfelt guide to building personal rituals and support networks that meet you where you are — not where society says you should be.

• Renegade Grief (out March 11, 2025)
• The Dinner Party - Peer grief support for 20 to 45 year-olds
• The Grieving Brain by Mary-Frances O’Connor
• The Smell of Rain on Dust by Martín Prechtel
• The Death of My Two Fathers - Documentary by Sol Guy

• Dougy Center Website: dougy.org
• Email the Show: [email protected]
• Listen to All Episodes: Grief Out Loud Podcast
• Follow us on Instagram and Facebook

In this episode Bryan Jung talks about the experience of being only nine years old when his father, a prominent lawyer in the Korean community, was tragically shot by another lawyer. Fifteen months later and just nine days before Bryan’s 11th birthday, his father died. Bryan reflects on the impact of his father’s death, the strength of his family, and how he continues to honor his dad’s legacy. He shares how his grief evolved over time, the role of community support, and the lessons he’s carried into his own life. Bryan also discusses founding This Is Why, an online platform that provides space for individuals who lost a parent as a child or teen to share their stories and find connection. 

We Discuss: 

• Bryan’s memories of his father and the impact of his death on their family 

• Navigating life after his father’s shooting and the challenges of childhood grief 

• The role of community support and the strength of his mother in keeping the family together 

• How volunteering at Camp Erin deepened his understanding of grief and inspired him to create This Is Why 

• The power of storytelling in grief and his commitment to continuing his father’s legacy 

• Forgiveness and personal growth in the aftermath of tragedy 

• How grief anniversaries and milestones continue to shape his journey 

Resources & Links: 

• Learn more about This Is Why: thisiswhy.life 

• Connect with This Is Why on social media 

• Information on Camp Erin: elunanetwork.org 

• Dougy Center: dougy.org 

Join the Conversation: 

We’d love to hear from you! If you have thoughts on this episode or want to share your own grief journey, email us at [email protected]. 

In this episode, we talk with Judy Lipson, author of A Celebration of Sisters. Judy shares her journey of sibling loss, reflecting on the deaths of her sisters—Margie, who died of anorexia, and Jane, who died in a car crash—and how their absence shaped her identity. She opens up about the complexities of sibling grief, the impact of Margie's long battle with an eating disorder, and the moment when the grief she had pushed aside for so long finally caught up with her.

Through writing, ice skating, and organizing a fundraiser in their honor, Judy found ways to reconnect with her sisters and keep their memory alive. She also discusses the evolving landscape of sibling grief support and how sharing her story has helped others navigate their own losses.

We Discuss:

• Growing up as the middle of three sisters
• The shock of losing Jane when Judy was 25, and then Margie nine years later
• The challenges of grieving while balancing responsibilities
• How ice skating and philanthropy became outlets for her grief
• The changing landscape of sibling grief support
• What she’s most proud of in her grief process

Resources & Links:

• Judy Lipson’s Website: judylipson.org
• Subscribe to Judy’s Substack: judylipson.com
• Book: A Celebration of Sisters – Available on Amazon and local bookstores
• Dougy Center Resources: dougy.org

When Jessica Waite's husband, Sean, died suddenly, she knew him as a dedicated father to their young son and a loving, engaged spouse. In her book, The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards, Jessica reveals the shock and heartbreak of discovering Sean's double life. What began as a devastating loss quickly became even more complex as she uncovered the many secrets he had kept—hidden debt, drug use, and infidelity.

Jessica talks about the rage, confusion, and emotional turmoil of grieving someone you love while simultaneously reckoning with the truth of who they really were. She reflects on anger as a catalyst for change, what she learned about parenting her son through his grief, and how ultimately she found a way back to herself.

We disuss:

• The shock of uncovering a Sean's secrets after his death
• The role of anger in grief 
• Navigating single parenthood while managing the weight of betrayal
• The complexity of holding both love and hurt for Sean
• The social pressures to maintain the image of someone who has died
• How humor and writing helped Jessica process her experience

Resources & Links:

• Connect with Jessica Waite on Substack: The Widow’s Guide To
• Purchase The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards online
• Learn more about grief support at Dougy Center

Support Grief Out Loud: Grief Out Loud is produced by the Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families. This podcast is sponsored in part by the Chester Stephan Endowment Fund. For more grief resources, visit dougy.org.

Join the Conversation: Have thoughts on this episode? Email us at [email protected]. Thank you for being part of our community!

In this episode we talk with Annie Sklaver Orenstein, author of Always A Sibling: The Forgotten Mourners. Annie talks about her older brother, Ben, who died when he was deployed in Afghanistan, and how his sudden death reshaped her understanding of grief and loss. They discuss the unique challenges of sibling loss and how Annie ultimately decided to write the book she wished she had when Ben died.

We Discuss:

• Annie’s relationship with her brother Ben and his role in her life
• The day Annie learned of Ben’s death and the immediate aftermath
• How grief intersected with anxiety
• The unique and often overlooked experience of grieving a sibling
• Writing Always A Sibling and the need for more grief resources for siblings
• The complexities of sibling grief in complicated relationships
• The impact of signs from Ben and how Annie learned to find comfort in them
• Navigating the question, "Were you close?"
• Coping with grief while navigating major life milestones, such as becoming a parent

Resources Mentioned:

• Annie Sklaver Orenstein’s book: Always A Sibling: The Forgotten Mourners (Available on Amazon, Bookshop.org, and local bookstores)
• Dougy Center's grief resources and support programs (www.dougy.org)

Connect with Annie Sklaver Orenstein:

• Instagram: @anniesklaverorenstein

Get in Touch with Us:

• Email: [email protected]
• Website: www.dougy.org

Want to Support the Show?

• Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen
• Leave us a rating & review

In this episode, we talk with Ru Callender, author of What Remains: Life, Death, and the Human Art of Undertaking. Ru shares his personal experience with profound childhood loss to becoming a self-proclaimed radical undertaker. We also discuss the impact of grief at different life stages, how participation in funerals can be helpful for children, and reimagining rituals to accurately reflect the life of the person who died.

Main topics:

• Parental Loss and Early Grief: Ru reflects on the loss of his father at age 7 and his mother in his 20s, sharing how these defining losses shaped his perspective on death and grief.
• Boarding School and Emotional Austerity: The impact of being sent away shortly after his father’s death.
• Becoming a Radical Undertaker: After a chance encounter with a TV program, Ru was inspired to challenge conventional funeral practices and embrace more personal, inclusive rituals.
• Children and Grief: Why including children in funerals can be helpful, offering them tangible ways to process and revisit their grief.
• Radical Funeral Planning: Ru’s vision for end-of-life ceremonies, including his own desire for a midsummer funeral pyre, and how he helps families create ceremonies that resonate deeply.
• The Role of Grief in Life: How grief manifests and resurfaces, and the creative ways Ru has processed his own grief through rituals and art.

Resources Mentioned:

• What Remains: Life, Death, and the Human Art of Undertaking by Ru Callender
• Dougy Center’s grief support resources: www.dougy.org

Join the Conversation: Have thoughts about this episode? Email Jana at [email protected] or connect with Dougy Center on social media. Don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to share what it means to you.

Grief can be shattering - and it can also reveal unexpected strength and resilience. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Sisler, award-winning sports broadcaster, ESPN Sideline reporter, and author of Shatterproof: How I Overcame the Shame of Losing My Parents to Opioid Addiction (and Found my Sideline Shimmy). Lauren shares her powerful story of losing her parents, who died within hours of each other during her freshman year of college, and how grief, fear, and shame, kept her from telling her story. 

Lauren discusses: 

• The initial shock of loss. 

• How grief evolved for her over the years and the tools that helped. 

• The power of sharing her story and connecting with others who’ve experienced loss. 

• Insights from her book Shatterproof, including ways she's found to stay connected to her parents.

Follow Lauren on IG. 

Thanks for Listening! If you found this episode meaningful, consider leaving a review or sharing it with someone who might benefit from it. Let’s keep the conversation about grief going.

[This episode originally aired December, 2023]

This time of year can be grueling for anyone, but particularly for those who are grieving. So, each year we put out an episode to help you feel less alone and hopefully more equipped to traverse the next few weeks. Today's guest, Melissa Peede Thompson, M.S., is a Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center. While she has lots of professional knowledge in this realm, we asked her to talk about her personal experience of grieving during the holidays. Melissa was six when her sister died of gun violence. She was 13 when her father died in a motorcycle accident. And she was a young adult when her grandparents died. Each loss shaped - and continues to shape - how Melissa and her family approach this time of year.

We discuss:

• How her sister's death impacted her parents at the holidays
• What she remembers about the first Christmas after her dad died
• Grieving for her her grandparents before they died
• How the holidays can feel empty, even when the house is full
• Melissa's realization that grief has left her a little bit "Grinchy"
• What she's doing to shift how she thinks and feels about the holidays
• Learning to appreciate being able to spend time with the people who are still alive
• Why St. Patrick's Day became her favorite holiday
• Taking the pressure off trying to make the holidays feel the same after someone dies

If you missed our past Holidays & Grief episodes, be sure to listen to Ep. 27, 98, 174, 240.

And our latest one, 306. 

Tips For Getting Through the Holidays & Holiday Plan Worksheet.