Grief Out Loud

Jeremy's mom was a protector, an optimist, and someone who held onto a sense of lightness - even after a cancer diagnosis that led to her death just a few months later.

In this episode, Jeremy shares what it was like to navigate such a short window between his mom's diagnosis and death, and how her outlook continues to shape him and his grief. From visiting her just before her death to to time spent in the woods bow hunting, he describes the ways he still feels connected to her.

After her death, Jeremy's connection to nature and hunting became a foundation for staying close with his mom. From finding a deer skull to a particularly challenging hunt, he felt her presence and support come through. Jeremy also turned to reconnecting with his Filipino heritage, joining a grief group, and moving to be closer to family as ways to cope with the loss.

At the heart of this conversation is the idea of ongoing connection - how relationships with people who have died can continue and evolve over time.

Note for listeners: This episode includes non-graphic references to bow hunting and the death of an animal. Please take care while listening.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Grief after a rapid illness and loss
• Staying connected to someone who has died
• The role of nature and ritual in grief
• Finding support, even when you're unsure
• Honoring family, culture, and heritage

Read transcript.

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

What does it mean to live with uncertainty - especially when your body, your capacity, and your sense of self are all changing at once?

In this episode, Jana is joined again by author and advocate Marisa Renee Lee. You may know Marisa from her first book, Grief Is Love, or from her work helping people tell the truth about grief. In this conversation, she returns to share about her new book, Waiting for Dawn, and the realities of living with long COVID - an experience that has reshaped her daily life, her work, and her understanding of grief.

Marisa reflects on the many losses she's navigated over the years: the death of her mother when she was 25, a pregnancy loss, the recent death of her beloved dog, and the ongoing grief of living with chronic illness. We explore how grief shows up not only after someone dies, but also in the loss of health, identity, and certainty.

Marisa shares how she's learning to live within that uncertainty, from asking for (and accepting) help, to finding small, sustaining moments of joy, to letting go of who she used to be. The conversation also touches on parenting through grief and illness, including how Marisa talks with her young son about death, and what it's been like to watch him develop his own relationship with grief.

We discuss:

• The difference between grieving a person and grieving your own health
• How long COVID has reshaped Marisa's identity, work, and daily life
• The loneliness of illness and the challenge of asking for help
• Parenting through grief and talking with children about death
• The impact of cumulative loss and how different losses intersect
• Letting go of who you were before loss or illness
• Finding "micro joys" and small footholds in hard seasons
• The role of faith, hope, and rest in navigating uncertainty

Find Marisa: marisareneelee.com Get the book: Waiting for Dawn — available April 7, 2026

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Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

Shelby Forsythia is well acquainted with grief. After a series of losses that started in her late teens and culminated in the death of her mother from cancer, Shelby became an expert in avoiding and outrunning her grief. Then, an incident with a stolen wallet broke through that avoidance; in the aftermath of letting those feelings out, she realized she needed to give herself permission to grieve. Since then, Shelby's done so much in the realm of grief support—as a coach, author, and host of the Grief Grower podcast. Shelby's newest book, Of Course, I'm Here, Right Now, written for friends, family, and community members, provides answers to the ubiquitous question: "What do I say to someone who is grieving?"

We discuss:

• The "four years of hell" when Shelby experienced multiple losses.
• The stolen wallet incident and the loud, messy grief eruption that followed.
• Why people fear falling into the abyss of grief if they start crying.
• Three stories people who are grieving tell themselves.
• The three phrases that help dismantle those unhelpful stories.
• What people said after Shelby's mom died vs. what they said after her best friend Tami died.
• How to start the conversation with someone who is grieving.

Connect with Shelby Forsythia: https://www.shelbyforsythia.com/ Her latest book, Of Course, I'm Here, Right Now, is out on 3.31.26.

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Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

What does grief look like when you lose your wife, two daughters, your home, and nearly everything you own - all in a single night? In this episode we talk with Michael Reed, a husband, father, and author whose life was forever changed when a wildfire swept through his community, taking the lives of his wife Constance, his older daughter Chloe, his youngest, Lily, their pets, and reducing their home to ashes. Nearly a decade later, Michael shares about the darkness he fell into, who was there to hold him and his son up, the ways he stays connected to his wife and daughters, and how he's re-engaged with life through writing and helping others.

Michael Reed is the author of The Million Stages of Grief, a self-published book born from years of middle-of-the-night writing as he tried to make sense of catastrophic loss. He also became an unexpected public face of his community's tragedy - a role he has since transformed into a mission of talking openly about grief, faith, and learning to live again.

In this episode:

• Michael shares vivid memories of his daughters: Chloe's extraordinary compassion and Lily's unforgettable sass and spirit.
• What it's like to lose not only the people you love but every physical trace of them - and how Michael keeps their memory close without tangible reminders.
• How his son Nicholas became a teacher for Michael in how to grieve.
• His experience with EMDR therapy and what acceptance means to him.
• The origin of The Million Stages of Grief: how raw, unedited Facebook posts led to a blog, then to a self-published book.
• Why the five stages of grief didn't work for Michael - and how he came to understand that grief can move through a million stages in a single day.
• A raw, honest account of his anger at God after the fire.
• What it was like to become the unwilling public spokesperson for a community's tragedy, and how he has reclaimed that platform on his own terms.
• His core message: loss is loss, no matter who or what you've lost — and using your own hurt to help others is how we change the world.

Connect with Michael:

Website - https://themillionstages.com/ Books - https://themillionstages.com/books IG - https://www.instagram.com/reedstrong2020

Transcript

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we talk with death & grief care professional, educator, and cultural advocate Joél Simone, also known as The Grave Woman.

Joél shares the story behind a childhood drawing that declared her future as "the grave woman," and how that early curiosity about death grew into a lifelong vocation in funeral service, grief education, and cultural competency. Drawing from decades of experience, Joél reflects on the spiritual, cultural, and embodied dimensions of grief, including what she's learned by listening closely to families, children, and traditions that are too often overlooked.

Joél also talks about her work as founder of the Multicultural Death & Grief Care Academy, including immersive learning experiences that center history, ritual, land, and lineage. Throughout the conversation, she invites us to rethink what ritual looks like and how tending to culture can provide grounding and support for grief.

We discuss:

• How rituals - inherited and improvised - can be a form of medicine
• What the funeral industry still needs to understand about serving Black and African American families
• The importance of cultural humility, proactive learning, and not treating communities as monoliths
• How children experience death and mourning from their literal, physical perspective and what adults often miss
• The role of land, ancestry, and cultural preservation in grief, particularly within Gullah Geechee communities
• Why culture itself can be a powerful container for grief and remembrance

Connect with Joél Simone:

Website: www.thegravewoman.com The Multicultural Death & Grief Care Academy Workshops & Classes The Death & Grief Talk Podcast

IG: https://www.instagram.com/thegravewoman Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thegravewoman/

When Matt Fogelson's father died of lung cancer during his senior year of college, he turned to music to express what words couldn't - rage, self-loathing, and grief so profound he didn't know where to put it.

In this conversation, Matt - author of the new memoir Restrung - talks about the silence that surrounded his father's terminal illness, the vacuum left by an absent but beloved parent, and how grunge music (especially Soundgarden and Pearl Jam) created space for him to feel what was hard to put into words.

Matt shares how his Aunt Wendy became his unlikely guide, why he wore his father's suits to work for years trying to feel close to him, and the breakthrough moment when Pearl Jam's "Release" helped him shift his relationship with his father's memory and his grief.

We also discuss how grief shaped his approach to parenting, why he sang a Grateful Dead song to his son every night for 14 years, and the three songs he wishes he could share with his father now.

Resources

• Matt's memoir Restrung (released February 3, 2026)
• Matt's Substack and music blog (Fine Tuning)
• More at dougy.org

Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families.

When Christina Babich's partner, Alex, died suddenly from a brain aneurysm while they were visiting his family in Italy, her world shattered in more ways than one. In addition to the grief of losing the person she loved and the future they were building together, Christina was also left to navigate the aftermath of a deeply traumatic event - one that profoundly impacted her nervous system, sense of safety, and identity.

In this episode, Christina shares what it was like to grieve a sudden, "out-of-order" death while also navigating the derealization, hypervigilance, and other ways the trauma of his death affected her. She talks about how being a "quasi widow" shaped the care and recognition she received and why platitudes about resilience and post-traumatic growth can sometimes feel alienating rather than supportive.

Christina also reflects on how her personal experience shaped her work as a psychologist specializing in grief and trauma, including the role of Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT), the pressure placed on people who are grieving to "transform" their pain, and the importance of being witnessed by someone who truly understands.

We discuss

• The difference between grief and trauma - and how they often coexist
• Derealization, PTSD, and nervous system responses after a sudden death
• What Christina means by "quasi-widow"
• Why platitudes about strength and growth can feel harmful
• How Cognitive Processing Therapy was helpful for her
• Grieving lost identities, futures, and imagined lives
• Finding connection with others who can relate
• Living day-to-day when the future feels overwhelming

Connect with Christina Website: https://www.christinababich.com/ Substack: christinababich.substack.com

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we talk with Adell Coleman about her mother who was killed when Adell was just 24 years old. Adell reflects on the closeness of their relationship and how her mom's death radically shifted her sense of safety in the world. She shares how the circumstances around her mother's death, including being the person who found her, has made it difficult to remember how her mom lived, without reliving how she died.

Adell also talks about what it's been like raising two daughters who never met their grandmother, but somehow carry her presence in surprising and meaningful ways. She reflects on anniversaries 14 years later, the exhaustion of grief, and how becoming the family "grief expert" interrupted her capacity to engage with her own grief.

The conversation closes with Adell describing how community, therapy, boundaries, and creative work - including her documentary and podcast, Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love - have helped her find language, connection, and space for her grief.

We discuss

• Losing a mother in young adulthood and feeling "not ready" to be an adult
• How violent death and trauma impact grief and memory
• The challenge of accessing good memories when you are dealing with traumatic imagery
• Parenting while grieving and helping children connect with a grandparent they never met
• Anniversaries, emotional exhaustion, and grief over time
• Becoming the family "grief expert" and having to put off personal grief
• Finding community after loss and why the right support can take time
• Creating meaning through storytelling, connection, and creative projects
• Adell's documentary and her new podcast, Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love

Connect with Adell Instagram: @iamadellcoleman Podcast: Echoes of Her Threads: @iamadellcoleman Documentary: Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love Substack: On My Momma

What if grief isn't a journey for us to eventually finish, but more a language we become fluent in? In this first episode of 2026, we talk with writer, storyteller, and social entrepreneur, John Onwuchekwa, whose life was profoundly shaped by the death of his brother Sam in 2015. John shares how Sam's death altered not just his relationships and priorities, but his understanding of grief itself.

Rather than framing grief as a journey with an endpoint, John offers a different metaphor: grief as a language that we learn over time, one with past, present, and future tenses. He explores how grief comes through not just in our words, but our bodies, our reflexes, and our relationships, showing up in ways we often don't consciously choose.

We discuss:

• The limitations - and harm - of common grief metaphors
• The shifts in John's priorities and perspective that occurred after Sam died
• How loneliness often sits at the center of grief
• The ways grief can show up in our bodies, before our minds understand what's happening
• Holding grief and hope at the same time

Connect with John Website: https://www.johno.co/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jawn_o/?hl=en We Go On: https://www.andwegoon.com/ Blog: https://www.johno.blog/ Podcast: Four In The Morning https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Portrait Coffee: https://www.johno.co/ventures#portrait

In the fall of 2023, Mackenzie Galloway-Cole was living out her rom-com-worthy love story with her wife Megan in New York City. Then, on an ordinary night in November, Megan collapsed and died a few hours later from a sudden cardiac event. In the aftermath, Mackenzie had to find her way in this newly shattered world without Megan, her anchor and biggest cheerleader.

Mackenzie reflects on the shock of becoming a young widow, the added layers of grief that come with queer partner loss, and the painful realities of navigating death care systems that often default to heteronormative assumptions.

Together, Jana and Mackenzie talk about the isolating nature of sudden and unexplained death, the importance of finding people who "get it," and the ways time itself becomes a particularly painful aspect of grief. Mackenzie also shares why New Year's can feel like a uniquely brutal grief milestone, how absence accumulates as life continues, and how Megan's love still shapes the way she takes care of herself today.

This conversation holds space for heartbreak, dark humor, love stories, and the not-so-quiet ways grief rewires daily life - especially when the person you most want to turn to is the one who died.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The story of how Megan and Mackenzie met and fell in love
• Sudden death and the trauma of an ordinary day turning catastrophic
• The intersection of being a young, gay widow
• Navigating hospitals, funeral homes, and death administration as a queer spouse
• Why the small, everyday moments can hurt more than the big ones
• How the second Christmas can feel even harder than the first
• New Year's as a "sneaky" grief holiday
• How the choices you make in life can reflect and honor your person who died

Mackenzie Galloway-Cole writes about grief at Good Gay Grief on Substack and can also be found on Instagram at @deadwifeclub