Grief Out Loud

It's our annual holiday episode, this time with Dougy Center Executive Director and TEDx speaker Brennan Wood. Brennan first encountered Dougy Center after her mom, Doris, died of breast cancer three days after Brennan's 12th birthday. She has since navigated almost four decades of holiday seasons with grief along for the ride. She shares about the early years that were awful; the young-adult years she spent volunteering away from family; and how, as an adult, she's learned to hold both grief and joy while creating new traditions for her own family. Whether this is your first or 41st holiday season with grief, this conversation offers validation, tangible suggestions, and new ways to think about this time of year.

We discuss:

• How attending a peer grief support group as a teen introduced Brennan to the idea that grief is to feel, not fix.

• Accepting that not everything has to be bright and shiny, especially during the holidays.

• Recalling the first Christmas after her mom died and why it felt awful.

• New traditions she's created as an adult with her own family.

• Grounding rituals Brennan uses, especially during the holidays.

• Why it's okay to be mad at holiday traditions you used to love.

Need additional tips and suggestions for this time of year?

Check out our past episodes and our Holiday Grief Tip Sheet & Worksheet

It's Okay That It's Not the Same: Grief at the Holidays

It Can Be So Awkward: Holidays & Grief

The Not- Most Wonderful Time of the Year: Holidays & Grief

Grief And The Holidays

Under Pressure – Grief & December Holidays

Watch Brennan's TEDxPortland Talk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN4zP5baJrg Read her A Kid's Book About Grief - https://dougybookstore.org/products/a-kids-book-about-grief Learn more about Brennan - https://www.dougy.org/about/team-dougy/executive-director

When Kyndal Parks' grandfather died on Black Friday - the day after Thanksgiving – she lost one of her biggest supporters and confidants. While navigating her grief, Kyndal was also navigating life as a college student where she often felt unseen in her grief by faculty and the wider institution. What began as a class assignment turned into a powerful audio piece about loss, legacy, and the urgent need for grief-informed spaces on college campuses, particularly at HBCUs where collective trauma, silence, and resilience intertwine.

In this conversation, Kyndal shares about her grandfather's extraordinary life - from his childhood in the 1940s, to living with a disability, to his time as a Black Panther, a gardener, a traveler, and the steady source of love that shaped her into the person she is today. She talks about the traditions they built together, how her grief shows up even from 2,000 miles away, and why vulnerability and community care are essential if we want to build environments where students who are grieving feel supported.

Kyndal also explores the cultural and historical patterns of grief in Black communities, the pressure to "push through," and her vision for a world where grief is met with connection, not silence.

We discuss:

• What made Kyndal's grandfather such an influential figure
• How his death reshaped her understanding of family, holidays, and identity
• What grief looked like at her college, and within her family and community
• Why she created her audio piece and what she hopes listeners take from it
• The need for vulnerability, community support, and grief-informed care at HBCUs and beyond
• How her grandfather continues to guide her today

Check out News Ambassadors, the program that helped connect us with Kyndal and her audio piece.

When Hilary was 18, her oldest sister, Kelly, died from a rare cancer called DSRCT (desmoplastic small round cell tumor). In the same year, Hilary left for college and her parents divorced - three life-altering events that reshaped her relationships, sense of stability, and the early years of adulthood.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Growing up as the youngest of three sisters and the creative, nurturing bond she shared with Kelly
• Navigating Kelly's diagnosis, treatment, and death while still in high school
• Trying to appear "fine" in college while carrying immense grief
• The ways her family dynamics shifted after Kelly's death and her parents' divorce
• How grief continued to evolve across developmental stages, from early adulthood into her mid-30s
• The unexpected moments - like baking bread or bringing home a new pet – that bring new waves of grief
• How her experience shaped her work as a therapist supporting others in pain

Hilary also shares what she wishes she had known about grief at 18, how exhausting it can be, and how she learned to make space for grief that shows up differently over time.

When Cassie arrived at Dougy Center for her first peer grief support group for young adults after her dad died, she sat in the parking lot wondering if she could even walk inside. When she did, she found people her age who understood what it meant to have a parent die - people who would end up shaping her life in ways she never imagined. In this episode, Cassie talks about how grief changed her, what it was like to find community in a peer support group, and how those friendships continue to support her years later. Now, as a volunteer facilitator in a peer grief support group for children, Cassie reflects on what it means to come full circle - turning the care she received into care she now offers others.

We Discuss:

• The early days and weeks after her dad's death
• How grief can be physically painful
• Finding connection and laughter in a support group
• Building lifelong friendships with people who "get it"
• Learning to make space for grief on purpose
• The importance of rituals and traditions
• What it's like to return as a volunteer to support children who are grieving
• The unexpected gifts of friendship Cassie's discovered in grief

Learn more about Dougy Center's peer grief support groups and resources for Young Adults ages 18-40.

When you're grieving, "Take care of yourself," might be the last thing you want to hear. So what does self-care actually look like for a parent or caregiver who is grieving? Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, MA, who coordinates the Pathways Program at Dougy Center for families facing an advanced serious illness, joins us to share practical tools for caregivers who are trying to balance taking care of others with tending to themselves, along with crucial advice for friends and family who want to provide truly meaningful support.

We discuss:

• The many roles caregivers hold before and after a death

• Balancing others' needs while grieving yourself

• How adults and kids experience grief differently

• When the surviving parent had a complicated relationship with the person who died

• Simple, doable self-care for caregivers

• What real, helpful support looks like from friends and community

• Learning how to ask for and accept help

Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, M.A., is the Pathways Program & Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center, The National Grief Center for Children & Families.

When Leena Magdi's younger brother, Hamoodi, was killed, her world shifted entirely. In her debut book Mourning Air, Leena explores how grief reshapes identity, faith, and love. In this conversation, Leena shares what it meant and means to be Hamoodi's sister, how sibling grief is often dismissed, and how writing helps her navigate the grief. Leena also shares about her family's forced displacement after war broke out in Sudan less than a year after Hamoodi's death - and how she's learning to grieve both her brother and her home.

We discuss:

• What it means to be a sister after a sibling dies
• The invisibility of sibling grief
• Finding connection through spirituality and writing
• Grieving a home and a country - and the additional losses her family experienced in fleeing to Egypt from Sudan after war broke out
• How Leena stays connected to Hamoodi

About Leena Magdi: Leena Magdi is a Sudanese-American writer and poet, author of Mourning Air, and mother of two. She was born in Sudan, raised in California, and currently lives in Egypt. You can find her on Instagram @xleenamagdix and TikTok @xleenamagdix.

When someone you know dies suddenly, everything changes in an instant. The world you once knew can feel unfamiliar and unsafe, and finding your way back to even the smallest sense of stability can feel impossible.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Jennifer Levin, therapist, educator, podcast host, and author of The Traumatic Loss Workbook: Powerful Skills for Navigating the Grief Caused by a Sudden or Unexpected Death. Jennifer specializes in supporting people grieving sudden or unexpected deaths that can completely upend how we see the world and shift our sense of safety.

We discuss:

• The differences and overlap between the terms: sudden, unexpected, and traumatic
• How grief affects the body, mind, and nervous system
• What it means when the "assumptive world" - our sense of how life should work - is shattered
• Ways to support yourself when sensory memories of the death are overwhelming
• How schools and workplaces can better prepare and respond when a community member dies

About the Guest: Dr. Jennifer Levin is a grief therapist, educator, and host of the Untethered podcast. She's the founder of Traumatic Grief Solutions and the creator of The Traumatic Loss Online Companion Course. Her new book, The Traumatic Loss Workbook, is available now from New Harbinger Publications.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Traumatic Loss Workbook by Dr. Jennifer Levin
• The Grieving Brain by Mary-Frances O'Connor
• I Wasn't Ready to Say Goodbye by Brook Noel, Pamela D Blair PhD
• Dougy Center resources for supporting children, families, and schools: dougy.org

When Tiriq Rashad, artist, poet, and performer, sits down to write, he's not just telling his own story - he's carrying his daughter, his brother, and his mother with him. In this conversation, Tiriq shares the layered ways grief has shaped who he is: from the death of his first child before she was born, to growing up caring for his brother who lived with cerebral palsy and autism, to the sudden death of his mother.

Through it all, Tiriq's foundation in caregiving, service, and community continues to guide him - both in his personal life and in his art. His new album, Kiss My Art, is woven through with grief, including themes of regret, forgiveness, and deep unwavering love. Each track on Kiss My Art reminds listeners that grief doesn't end, it evolves and we evolve with it.

We talk about:

• How the death of his daughter shapes his life perspective – and his parenting.
• How caregiving for his brother as a child set him on the path to social work.
• The trauma and legacy of his mother's death in a car accident.
• Choosing to face grief without leaning on vices.
• Writing and performing as practices of healing.
• How the death of a public figure can impact those who never even met them.

Connect with Tiriq Rashad:

• Website: tiriqrashad.com
• Instagram: @tiriq_rashad
• No Regrets Official Music Video

When Tyler Feder was 19, her mom died of cancer, an experience she captured years later in her bestselling graphic memoir Dancing at the Pity Party. In the years since, Tyler has described herself as a "dead mom person" - reflecting just how much of her life was shaped by the death of her mother. But this past winter, Tyler's dad also died, adding a new aspect to her identity, this time as an adult orphan.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The contrast between her parents' personalities – mom (quiet, creative, cat-like), dad (gregarious, emotional, dog-like) - and which of those aspects Tyler carries forward in hers.
• How writing, art, and community help her process grief.
• One of Tyler's favorite questions about her parents.
• Why tangible keepsakes matter so much.
• The difference having a parent die when you're still a teenager vs an adult.
• How her family approached her father's illness and death compared to her mom's.
• Living with worry and fear about her own health and mortality.

Follow Tyler's work on Instagram @tylerfeder.

In 1986, when Kristine S. Ervin was eight years old, her mother was abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered in Oklahoma. Decades later, Kristine tells her story in Rabbit Heart - A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Story, a memoir weaves together her fragmented childhood memories, growing up with grief, and then as an adult, reckoning with the painful details of her mother's death. The course of the book shifts when there is a break in the cold case of her mother's murder, leading to a trial and eventual conviction of Kyle Eckhart, one of the men responsible.

In this conversation Kristine reflects on what it means to grieve for her mother and for the violent way she died. She explores the power of imagination in grief, the struggle of piecing together memories shaped by others, and how writing became both an outlet and a way to preserve a connection to her mother.

Together, Jana and Kristine talk about:

• What she remembers about her mother and which of those memories are shaped by what others remember.
• How Kristine reacted to media portrayals of her mother's life and death.
• What she remembers about learning her mother was abducted and then the day she found out she was murdered.
• What it was like to grow up not knowing who killed her mother.
• The story behind the title of her memoir, Rabbit Heart.
• The role of imagination and fantasy in both childhood and adult grief.
• The emotional impact of learning new, violent details about her mother's death, and how this knowledge changed Kristine's relationship with her grief over time.
• How the publication of Rabbit Heart allowed her to connect with her mother's memory in a new way.

Content note: this episode includes details of violence, sexual assault, and murder, along with some adult language. Please listen with care.

Kristine Ervin grew up in a small suburb of Oklahoma City and is now an associate professor at West Chester University, outside Philadelphia. She holds an MFA in Poetry from New York University and a Ph.D. in Creative Writing and Literature, with a focus in nonfiction, from the University of Houston. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in Fourth Genre, Crimereads, Crab Orchard Review, Brevity, Passages North, and Silk Road. Her essay "Cleaving To," was named a notable essay in the Best American Essays 2013. Kristine's debut memoir Rabbit Heart is currently available from Counterpoint Press.