Grief Out Loud

When someone dies, the story is often one of sadness, longing, and loss. But what happens when the person who died was also someone who caused great harm? For Kathy, who was sexually and emotionally abused by her father, his death when she was 11 brought more relief than grief.

In this conversation, Kathy shares how her early experiences with grief and trauma shaped her path as a social worker and volunteer, including her current work with teens and tweens who are grieving.

We explore:

• What it was like to have her dad die while carrying the painful secret about his abuse
• The mixed emotions of grieving someone who caused great harm
• How volunteering gave Kathy a sense of purpose and visibility at a young age
• The importance of creating space for young people - and adults - to share the full range of feelings about the person who died, including the hard and complicated ones
• What Kathy would want her 11-year-old self, and other kids in similar situations, to know

Kathy's story broadens our understanding of grief, reminding us that it's never one-dimensional, and that sometimes, relief outweighs grief.

Note: this episode includes references to childhood sexual and emotional abuse.

How do we move from seeing grief as something to fix or overcome, to understanding it as a lifelong companion and guide? In this conversation with Rev. Dr. Jamie Eaddy CT, CTP - educator, death doula, founder of Thoughtful Transitions, and creative force behind The Ratchet Grief Project® - she invites us to reimagine grief as a friend who helps us navigate loss, change, and transition. Drawing from her personal lineage of grief through the deaths of her grandmother, cousin, and uncle, Dr. J. shares how these experiences shaped her work supporting individuals and communities, especially those living at the intersections of marginalization and oppression.

We explore:

• How personal experiences with family deaths shaped Dr. Eaddy's career path
• Redefining grief beyond death - as our natural response to loss, change, transition, unmet expectations, unrealized dreams, and shattered assumptions
• The concept of "befriending grief" - viewing grief as a companion and guide rather than something to overcome
• The Ratchet Grief Project® - creating space for marginalized communities to grieve authentically without conforming to restrictive societal expectations
• How racism, sexism, and systemic oppression create additional layers of grief for Black communities
• The harmful expectations of "acceptable" grief
• Current trends in grief work, including the rise of death doulas and increased awareness of non-death losses
• Unlearning narratives around strength, silence, and emotional suppression
• The importance of reclaiming parts of ourselves - like joy - that get left behind in survival

To learn more:

1. Follow Dr. J. @drjamieeaddy on IG.
2. Visit Thoughtful Transitions
3. Stay tuned for The Ratchet Grief Project coming Fall, 2025

Welcome to a special "podcast takeover" episode. This week, Lindsey Whissel Fenton, creator of Speaking Grief and Learning Grief, steps in to interview Jana. Their conversation centers on Jana's beloved Boston Terrier, Captain, who died in December 2024 at the age of 15. Lindsey understands this heartache well, as her own sweet dog, Birch, died in May 2022. As a skilled interviewer and a thoughtful friend in grief, Lindsey was the perfect person to explore Jana's experience of loving and grieving for Captain.

Together, Lindsey and Jana delve into how Captain came into Jana's life, the complexities of caregiving for an aging pet, the difficult decisions surrounding their end-of-life, and the subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways pet grief can be minimized or dismissed, by others and sometimes even by us.

This conversation weaves between the personal and professional, touching on:

• How Captain became a cherished part of Jana's life
• The physical and behavioral changes Captain experienced in his last two years
• Navigating personal loss as a grief professional
• The challenging dynamics of deciding when and how to say goodbye
• Captain's last day
• Jana's evolving relationship with Captain's belongings
• Expressing grief through writing and sharing on Instagram (@Captain_the_Furpig)
• The struggle of making space for pet grief within a field primarily focused on human loss
• How grief rituals evolve over time, and the importance of allowing ourselves permission for these changes

A quick content note: we'll be discussing end-of-life caregiving for a pet, including the decision-making process around euthanasia. We know these are tender topics, so please take care as you listen.

The resource we mention: Supporting Children & Teens After the Death of a Pet or Companion Animal

Lindsey Whissel Fenton, MEd, CT (she/her) is an Emmy award-winning filmmaker, international speaker, and grief educator. In her current role as a senior producer/director and instructional designer at PBS/NPR affiliate WPSU, Lindsey focuses on projects related to grief, trauma, and mental health. She is the creator of Speaking Grief and Learning Grief, founder of Empathic Media, and serves on the Board of Directors for the National Alliance for Children's Grief (NACG). She's also an instructional designer and content creator for the Yale Child Study Center's Grief-Sensitive Healthcare Project. Lindsey earned her bachelor's degree in Cinema and Digital Arts from Point Park University, her master's degree in Learning, Design, and Technology from Penn State, and is Certified in Thanatology through the Association for Death Education and Counseling (ADEC). She's a dog mom, avid reader, and rock climber.

When Susie and Nick Shaw's nine-year-old son William died in a skiing accident, their world shifted permanently. In the six years since that day, they've found ways to carry their grief and stay connected to William, while continuing to honor the boy who inspired so much good in their lives and in their community.

In this deeply moving conversation, Susie and Nick reflect on William's life—his empathy, his humor, and the motto he created for himself in the year before he died: "Be Yourself." A simple but powerful phrase that inspired their nonprofit, William's Be Yourself Challenge.

Together, we discuss:

• The day William died and what they've come to understand about control, safety, and loss

• Navigating grief as individuals and as a couple

• Supporting their son Kai in grieving for his brother

• Raising Bodhi, their child who was born after William's death

• Creating family rituals, including monthly taco nights and birthday celebrations

• Returning to Big Sky, Montana to visit the spot where William died and reclaim their love of skiing

• Their new project, The Greenhouse, a house for families who are grieving to take a break from daily life

Whether you're a parent or a caregiver who's grieving, a supporter of one, or someone walking alongside a family coping with heartbreaking grief, this conversation highlights the power of honesty, connection, and intentional grief work.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of child death, trauma, and detailed descriptions of the day William died.

More from Susie & Nick:

• Susie's writing: Dear William Substack

• Susie on IG: @bereavementmom

• Nick's book: My Teacher, My Son

• Learn more: WilliamsBeYourselfChallenge.org

• Donate or get involved with The Greenhouse Project: WBYCgiving.org

Jessie was 21. Molly was 11. Two days after their joint birthdays, their mom, Jill, was murdered by Molly's father. In the hours, days, and years that followed, there was little room for grief. Jessie and Molly were expected to keep going — and they did. But that forward momentum came at a cost.

It's been nearly 20 years, and only recently have Jessie and Molly begun to revisit what happened and what it's meant to live with unspoken grief and unacknowledged trauma. As part of that process, they discovered a manila envelope packed away in storage - inside were eight children's book manuscripts written by their mom in the 1980s. Finding those stories sparked a new chapter of connection with their mom and motivated them to work towards getting them illustrated and published.

Note: This conversation includes descriptions of domestic violence, stalking, violent death, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, see the list of resources below.

In this conversation, Jessie and Molly talk about:

• What their mom was like and what she meant to each of them
• Their vastly different experiences of the day she was killed
• What stood in the way of them naming what they lived through as abuse and trauma
• How grief became something they held privately, even from each other
• The impact of finally receiving permission to feel and grieve
• Their efforts to get their mom's children's stories published

Follow along and support their project: Barty Books on Instagram GoFundMe: Everyone Has A Story To Tell.

Dougy Center: https://www.dougy.org

National Domestic Violence Hotline - 1-800-799-7233 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline - 988

How do you keep your heart open to love after it's been broken apart by grief? Danielle LaRock was just 19 when her father died of a heart attack. In 2022, her partner Ian died suddenly. Then, in 2024, her beloved dog Blue died, and with Blue went many shared memories of time spent with Ian. The experience of loving and being loved by Ian opened up places in Danielle's heart that had closed down after her father's death. That openness has stayed with her, even as she grieves for both Ian and Blue. That ongoing love and connection have shaped Danielle's grief and the ways she tries to support others who are also grieving.

We discuss:

• How Danielle coped - and didn't - as a college student after her dad's death
• The isolation of being surrounded by peers who hadn't experienced the death of a parent
• Meeting Ian as children and reconnecting as adults
• How Ian's own experience with the death of his dad helped him understand and support her grief
• Being present for Ian's medical crisis and emergency brain surgery
• The trauma of witnessing his death and being the person who had to tell his friends and family
• How experiencing deep love with Ian changed her approach to all relationships
• Learning to celebrate the milestones of others while grieving the loss of the ones she would have shared with Ian
• The spiritual awakening Danielle experienced after Ian's death
• Discovering traditional therapy didn't work for her
• The value of online support groups, specifically for young widows & widowers
• Exploring ways to support others in their grief

Guest Bio

Danielle LaRock is the co-host of the popular podcast National Park After Dark, which explores dark history and tragedy in outdoor spaces. A former veterinary technician from New England, Danielle has become a compassionate voice in the grief community, using her own experiences with loss to help others navigate their journeys. Connect with Danielle on IG.

Sometimes we can't really begin to understand grief - ours or anyone else's - if we don't have space to talk about the death. The context surrounding how someone died matters and can shape our grief in meaningful ways. This was true for Kari Lyons-Price, MSW, who was a caregiver for her parents, Hal and Sylvia, for many years. They died three years apart, her dad in 2019 and her mom in 2022, and the circumstances of their deaths greatly impacted Kari and her grief.

We discuss:

• How her parents lived - and how they each died
• Why their death stories matter when it comes to grief
• The anger and resentment in the immediate aftermath of her father's death
• What she's done to come to terms with the circumstances of each of their deaths
• The role advocacy and education in the realm of care facilities played in that process
• Making decisions about her mother's care in light of how her father died and the pandemic
• The ongoing, slow nature of grief when someone has a long-term degenerative illness
• What it's meant to no longer be a caregiver for her parents
• Overcoming her family's narrative of autonomy and learning to accept support in grief
• Where Kari finds her foundation now

Want to hear more from Kari? Check out her podcast, Live Well. Be Wise.

In this episode, Camila returns to Grief Out Loud six years after her first appearance to share how grief continues to evolve. What began with the sudden loss of her mother at age 21 has now expanded to include the ongoing grief of caregiving for her father, who is living with dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

Camila discusses the unique challenges of long-distance caregiving, the differences between sudden loss and gradual decline, and how these two types of grief intersect in her life. She also discusses navigating major life milestones—including getting married during the pandemic—without her mother's presence.

We Discuss:

• The difference between sudden loss and the "slow grief" of watching a parent decline
• How grief has shifted in the 15+ years since her mother's unexpected death
• Losing her father as the co-archivist of her mother's life and their family history
• Managing long-distance caregiving
• The failures of the elder care system in the U.S.
• The role of chosen family and support
• Wedding planning and the question of how to honor her mother's memory
• The complexity of being a queer person in traditionally heteronormative grief support spaces
• Feeling like she no longer has parents, even though her father is still alive
• The therapeutic value of pets
• Finding moments of connection and joy with her father despite his condition
• Using poetry as a processing tool for grief

About the Guest:

Camila is a poet who has published three books of poetry:

• The Progression of Grief (about losing her mother)

• New Waters (about falling in love and healthy relationships)

• The Longevity of Grief (about caring for her father and how different types of grief intersect)

This episode is the third in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families in Portland, Oregon.

In this deeply personal episode, Mark Chesnut returns to Grief Out Loud to share his experience of losing his sister Glynn to ovarian cancer. Glynn chose medical aid in dying after nearly four years of treatment, giving Mark and his family the unusual experience of knowing when death would occur. This conversation explores the complexity of "scheduled death," the challenges of finding appropriate language to discuss medical aid in dying, and how knowing the date changed their family's grieving process.

Mark Chesnut is a journalist, editor, public speaker, and the author of: Prepare for Departure. Mark previously appeared on Grief Out Loud in October 2022, discussing caring for his mother at the end of her life. Mark lives in New York City with his husband Angel and recently wrote an article about his sister's experience with medical aid in dying.

This episode is the second in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families in Portland, Oregon.

When someone dies, our relationship with them doesn't just disappear. Sometimes the relationship changes in ways we never expected, allowing us to feel closer to them than we did when they were alive. This can leave us learning to grieve not just for what we had, but for what never got the chance to have with them. In this episode we talk with Never Faull about grieving for their father, who died in 2018 from cirrhosis of the liver. Nev shares how their relationship with their father was distant during his life and how they've found ways to create a deeper connection with him after his death. We also discuss what it was like for Nev, who came out as trans six months after their dad dies, to navigate grieving while also celebrating a new unfolding in their identity.

Topics we discuss:

• Navigating grief in complex parent-child relationships
• The impact of undiagnosed autism on family connections
• Creating meaning and relationship after death
• The symbols and rituals that help Nev feel a connection with their dad's presence
• Queer and trans grief resources

Never Faull is a queer and trans, disabled, autistic BIPOC writer, photographer, facilitator, and grief tender based in Portland. they explore the intersections of memory, identity, and mourning in their creative work. their current project, The Dead Dad Camera Club, started with the camera their dad left behind, and has become a way to navigate grief through photos and storytelling.

Resources Mentioned

• The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Queer Grief Club run by Jamie Thrower
• Dead Dad Camera Club newsletter
• Grief Out Loud contact: [email protected]
• The Dougy Center website: dougy.org

This episode is the first in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.