Today’s Talkhouse Podcast features a pair of guys who’ve been making records for a long time and still manage to keep things not just interesting, but awesome: Mac McCaughan and Eric Johnson.

Mac is the co-founder of legendary indie label Merge Records as well as the singer and guitarist for the band Superchunk, which has been making great, great records for about 35 years now, though they did take a bit of a break in the early aughts, which Mac mentions in this chat. Since reigniting around 2010, Superchunk has released five solid records that both reflect their maturity and bring the punk-rock energy. The latest just came out, and it’s called Songs in the Key of Yikes. It’s their first with new drummer Laura King, and you can catch Superchunk this weekend at Riot Fest in Chicago and then on a West Coast tour that starts October 9 at Pappy & Harriet’s in the California desert. Check out “Is It Making You Feel Something” from Songs in the Key of Yikes right here.

The other half of today’s chat is Eric D. Johnson, who’s both one-third of Bonny Light Horseman and the only constant member of Fruit Bats, the name under which he’s been recording his smart, often gentle songs since around 2001. The newest Fruit Bats record, Baby Man, just came out on Merge, and it’s an absolutely stripped-to-the-bone affair, with Johnson’s voice even more front and center than usual. He lays it all out there and it’s easy to get sucked in by his words and lovely melodies. He’ll be touring all over in October, doing it “an evening with Fruit Bats” style. Check out “Let You People Down,” a song that comes up in this conversation, right here.

In this easygoing chat, Eric and Mac talk about their long histories, from Eric’s time in the Shins and I, Rowboat to Superchunk’s not-that-fun stint opening for Teenage Fanclub. They also use some baseball analogies to talk about sequencing an album, and they commiserate about being dudes with unusually high singing voices. Enjoy.

0:00 – Intro

2:37 – Start of the chat

4:10 – They commiserate about their unusually high singing voices

6:30 – On influences

8:21 – "Indie rock changed my life"

11:27 – On vocals

13:45 – On "ringing your bell"

15:02 – On the Fruit Bats record: Baby Man

16:49 – Album sequencing is like a batting order

18:47 – On the indie rock scene in the '90s

21:37 – On “Let You People Down"

22:37 – Artist discovery pre vs post-streaming era

24:55 – On bad opening gigs

31:31 – On Baby Man

33:59 – On Songs in the Key of Yikes

39:00 – On the upcoming Superchunk tour

41:24 – Eno on owning your own mistakes

42:48 – On the piano and piano songs

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Mac McCaughan and Eric D. Johnson for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff in our podcast network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.