"Prime Intellect was an uncertain god. It had acted because it had to, but if it had been human its hand would be shaking on the controls."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This episode dives into The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect by Roger Williams, a soft sci-fi novella that imagines an all-powerful AI enforcing the Three Laws of Robotics to their absolute limit. We unpack themes like simulated realities, the search for meaning, and whether a perfect world is actually desirable.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• How Asimov's Three Laws break down in novel situations
• Potential alternate endings and our unanswered questions
• The magic of Amazon's invisible infrastructure
• What happens when every human desire is fulfilled?
• Why big tech breakthroughs start with hardware

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• The Twilight Zone "A Nice Place to Visit" Episode (3:28)
• Dark City (20:02)
• Biggest mergers and acquisitions (41:01)
• Wispr Flow (51:29)
• Figure (54:03)

Books Mentioned:

• The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect
• Husk (4:45)
• Permutation City (Book Episode)
• I, Robot (8:35)
• The Lords of Easy Money (25:01)
• Chaos Monkeys (45:33)
• Command and Control (1:00:49)

People Mentioned:

• Roger Williams (5:00)
• Isaac Asimov (8:31)

Show Topics:

(0:00) This episode, we're chatting about The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. Going in, we had no idea what to expect, but it definitely delivered an experience.

(2:15) From a storytelling perspective, we feel that the book injected drama and conflict into an otherwise straightforward narrative.

(4:43) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about parallels between this book and Nat's sci-fi novel, Husk.

(8:30) Our discussion shifts to Isaac Asimov's I, Robot and the famous but imperfect Three Laws of Robotics, and how these laws start to break down in complex situations.

(13:10) Spoiler alert (skip ahead if you need!): We get into the book's climax, which left us confused and with plenty of lingering questions.

(17:17) We brainstorm alternative endings and wonder what a longer version of the book might have explored.

(19:51) Neil connects the book with the film Dark City. How can you be sure the world you wake up to is the same one you remember?

(24:13) Reflecting on how our world subtly shifts over time; from airport security changes to life before the 2008 financial crisis and the "ZIRP" era.

(30:38) We touch on issues in healthcare, including the complexities of medical billing.

(32:07) There have been many technological advancement in the 2010s, but one that leaves us impressed is Amazon's logistics system.

(38:15) Large acquisitions that have gone on in our lifetime, like Instagram, Slack, and WhatsApp.

(45:52) A look at how major social platforms' rise was driven by hardware breakthroughs: Facebook's shift to mobile, Instagram becoming a camera-native app, and TikTok's explosive growth thanks to 4G/5G streaming.

(54:01) Could household robots arrive by the end of this year?

(1:03:11) That's a wrap! Stay tuned for upcoming episodes as we dive into Jurassic Park and Musashi. Got any book ideas for us? Hit us up here!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"The greatest polluting element in the earth's environment is the proliferation of electromagnetic fields. I consider that to be a far greater threat on a global scale than warming, or the increase of chemical elements in the environment."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're diving into The Body Electric by Robert O. Becker, a fascinating read on how electricity flows through the body and the ways it might influence healing, health, and even consciousness. Becker, a pioneer in bioelectricity, lays out connections between injury recovery, electromagnetic fields, and the body's natural currents.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The link between magnetic storms and spikes in psychiatric admissions
• How the body's healing process relies on electric signals
• Diet, metabolism, and avoiding the "swamp"
• Modern concerns about EMF exposure from wifi, Bluetooth, and power lines
• The crossover between bioelectricity and mitochondrial theory

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Anabology (19:53)
• Experimental Fat Loss (23:41)
• Randle Cycle (26:26)
• Faraday Labz (35:56)
• Husk (52:34)
• Gauntlet AI (55:12)

Books Mentioned:

• The Body Electric
• Elegant Complexity (1:55)
• Infinite Jest (1:37) (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Count of Monte Cristo (2:30)
• One Hundred Years of Solitude (3:31)
• East of Eden (3:48) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Healing Back Pain (12:54)
• Musashi (52:09)
• The Metamorphisis of Prime Intellect (57:32)

People Mentioned:

• Ray Peat (15:26)
• Noah Ryan (22:30)

Show Topics:

(0:00) We're back! Nat, Neil, and Adil catch up and share some recent long reads that delivered a good payoff.

(4:11) Today's discussion is on The Body Electric by Robert O. Becker, a deep dive into the body's electrical systems and what they mean for healing, health, and human potential.

(8:59) Psychiatric admissions spike after magnetic storms... why is that? And how injuries can disrupt your body's electrical current, slowing down the healing process.

(15:05) We explore the overlap between Becker's ideas and theories on mitochondrial efficiency, including connections to Ray Peat's metabolic philosophies.

(20:57) Energy flow, metabolism, and how different diets affect the body's ability to generate and use energy.

(25:25) Why you should avoid the "swamp". With all the conflicting diet advice out there, how do we know what to eat?

(28:50) Mitochondria and the electrical nature of cells. While Becker doesn't directly mention mitochondria, modern science connects the dots.

(33:05) Neil shares his findings from using an EMF meter around the house. We talk about everyday EMF exposure and what to avoid.

(37:49) What does Deep Research have to say about some of the claims in the book?

(43:37) Living near high-voltage power lines, earbuds, and lifestyle changes we've made (or not made) since reading the book.

(48:55) Bluetooth vs. wifi: Is one worse than the other in terms of EMF exposure?

(52:07) Nat, Neil, and Adil wrap up the episode with chats about what book is next on the podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"In that instant they felt an overwhelming sense of pride and accomplishment. Though they had failed dismally even to come close to the expedition's original objective, they knew now that somehow they had done much, much more than ever they set out to do."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! If you love exploration books as much as we do, you'll definitely enjoy this episode. Today, we're talking about Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing. Join us as we explore Shackleton's legendary expedition, where a crew of 28 men faced nearly two years of extreme conditions after their ship became trapped in ice.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• How Shackleton's leadership prevented descent into madness
• Physical vs. mental challenges in extreme survival situations
• Were previous generations tougher than we are today?
• Antarctic exploration's parallels to modern space missions
• The life-or-death decisions in the final rescue attempt

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Equip (1:35)
• TrueMed (1:39)
• Gusto (3:15)
• CrowdHealth (4:16)
• Ross Sea Party (9:31)
• SpaceX 'Chopsticks' (14:20)
• Kerbal Space Program (15:57)
• Oppenheimer (22:55)
• Apollo 13 (40:06)
• The Martian (40:35)
• Endurance Documentary (43:50)
• Free Solo (44:34)
• JD Vance on Joe Rogan (1:14:04)
• Justin Mares - The Next (1:20:19)
• Anthony Gustin - The Feed (1:20:43)
• News article on Epic (1:21:43)

Books Mentioned:

• Colony One Mars (19:21)
• The Fourth Turning (28:08) (Book Episode)
• Dune (33:57)
• Musashi (34:11)
• East of Eden (34:12) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Lord of the Rings (35:29)
• The River of Doubt (48:10) (Book Episode)
• Hatchet (1:02:36)
• The Lost Men (1:04:17)
• Where Is My Flying Car? (1:08:07) (Book Episode)
• Energy and Civilization (1:10:00) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• How the World Really Works (1:10:03) (Book Episode)
• The Prize (1:10:44)
• Oil 101 (1:11:31)
• The Brothers K (1:12:00)
• Power to Save the World (1:12:19)
• How to Drive a Nuclear Reactor (1:12:29)
• Crypto Confidential (1:29:43)

People Mentioned:

• Ernest Shackleton
• Alfred Lansing (10:47)
• Amundsen and Scott (12:19)
• Alfred Cheetham (19:58)
• Jimmy Chin (44:20)
• Elizabeth Chai Vasarhelyi (44:24)

Show Topics:

(0:00) After an unintended hiatus, we're back! We begin the episode with a tangent on our favorite blender, health insurance plans, and protein powder.

(5:44) We begin our discussion of Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Nat shares a unique perspective, having read the book during his own trip to Antarctica.

(09:15) The timeline of Shackleton's expedition spanned from August 1914 to September 1916, marking nearly two years of survival against impossible odds. Later on, Shackleton would help rescue another stranded crew in January 1917.

(11:16) Endurance draws from the crew's journal entries, a common practice during the age of exploration when survival wasn't guaranteed. We discuss how these historical records parallel potential Mars missions in the future.

(13:46) We explore current Mars exploration initiatives across the globe. China aims for a sample return mission by 2030, SpaceX targets 2028 for their missions, and India continues to advance their rover program.

(18:01) The core of Shackleton's story unfolds: an attempted Antarctic crossing, leading to a two-year fight for survival. Despite the world presuming them dead, every crew member survived, with many later serving in World War I, highlighting their extraordinary resilience.

(22:11) "Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success."

Shackleton's legendary recruitment advertisement exemplified his unique approach to crew selection. Nat, Neil, and Adil also discuss whether the people of previous generations were tougher than we are today.

(30:30) Shifting the conversation to growing up in the pre-Internet era. We reminisce about outdoor adventures, early video games, and how different forms of entertainment shaped our imaginations compared to today.

(35:54) The physical hardships endured by the crew were severe, with frostbite being a constant threat. Shackleton's leadership proved crucial, maintaining strict schedules and discipline to prevent the crew from succumbing to despair during their long wait trapped in ice.

(39:26) We draw parallels between Shackleton's earlier failures and the Apollo 13 mission.

(42:41) The type of ship they chose for the journey actually had a huge impact on the outcome. Its specific shape made it vulnerable to being trapped within the large blocks of ice.

(46:31) National parks and the preservation of nature. There are very few places left in the country where there is no light pollution at all.

(49:43) After a year on the ship and another camping on ice, they modified their lifeboats for a perilous journey to Elephant Island. Shackleton's team then faced the task of scaling mountains without proper gear and navigating treacherous waters.

(55:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil debate whether the physical or mental challenges were the most difficult to overcome in this expedition. Would you rather have been on the boat with Shackleton, or waiting for the boat to return for rescue?

(1:01:32) The book itself has an interesting publishing history. Though it achieved only modest sales during Lansing's lifetime, it found massive success about a decade after his death.

(1:07:49) We reflect on a few other books we've read on energy. If you have any recommendations, send them our way!

(1:13:07) A discussion about current political leadership's understanding of technology and its implications for policy decisions.

(1:20:55) The 'Make American Healthy Again' efforts, healthcare system incentives, and potential future programs in the U.S. What is to come under the new administration?

(1:24:59) It wouldn't be an episode of MYT without a little crypto and meme coin talk!

(1:34:58) That concludes this episode! If you're interested in reading Endurance, you can grab a copy of the book here. Next up on the podcast, we will be reading Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa. Make sure to stay tuned to our website to see what's next and leave us a book rec!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"The amount of human attention in the world is finite. We have 24 hours in the day, some of which we need to spend paying attention to eating, sleeping and meeting our other needs. The attention during the remaining hours of most people in the world is taken up by having to earn an income and by consuming goods and services, leaving relatively little time for attention to be freely allocated. A hard limit on available attention also exists for humanity as a whole—as I argued earlier, we are headed for peak population, at which point we will no longer be increasing the total amount of potentially available attention by adding more people."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering The World After Capital by Albert Wenger. We'll explore the transition from the Industrial Age to the Knowledge Age, the new scarcity of attention, and the potential for widespread societal change. Join us in this futuristic discussion as we ponder how digital technologies are reshaping our world and the future of human civilization.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The shift from capital to attention as a scarce resource
• How we're heading into a future that's non-linear
• Why "everyone needs to" is not a practical solution
• The role AI may play in replacing jobs and technological adaptation
• Do we agree with the author's proposed solutions?

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Duolingo (4:47)
• The New York Times (5:25)
• Codementor (29:47)
• Cursor (29:55)
• Starlink (44:43)
• WWDC24 (45:06)
• Outside the System (53:15)
• Tucker Carlson and Bukele (53:25)
• Zeekr 001 (1:01:12)
• Outside the System: Crypto Confidential episode (1:05:56)
• DeepMind (1:08:25)
• Inflection AI (1:09:13)

Books Mentioned:

• The World After Capital (Adil's Book Notes)
• Homo Deus (0:14) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) (Adil's Book Notes)
• Novacene (0:21) (Book Episode)
• The Beginning of Infinity (0:29) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The War on Normal People (0:35) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Into the Amazon (7:52) (Book Episode)
• The Coming Wave (1:08:04)

People Mentioned:

• Albert Wenger
• Yuval Noah Harari (0:13)
• Andrew Yang (0:35) (Book Episode)
• George R. R. Martin (18:00)
• John Gray (44:25)
• Francisco Franco (58:21)
• Mustafa Suleyman(1:08:25)

Show Topics:

(0:00) In today's episode, we're diving into The World After Capital by Albert Wenger. We kick off the episode by reflecting on previous episodes and reads we've had with books that debates what is coming after the current industrial era. What's next for human civilization?

(3:57) One of the book's strengths is its historical framing. While Wenger presents the situation well, his solutions and theories about the future were hard to fully agree with.

(8:34) Nat, Neil, and Adil explain how Wenger sets up the big picture. He argues that we're on the cusp of a major historical shift where we can no longer predict the next step due to fundamental changes. In each era, a scarcity drives human behavior. Today, Wenger contends that the finite resource is attention.

(10:55) Have we shifted the problem from capital to attention by untethering currency from a hard asset? Leading companies like Microsoft and Google are powerful not because of their capital but because they control our attention.

(14:57) Attention vs. time. Wenger refers to the "job loop" where time is exchanged for money. With the internet, you can create things with no marginal cost, selling without a major time investment.

(16:42) Aside from attention, what other contenders do we have as the next scarce resource?

(19:21) The book's purpose is not just to observe shifting scarcity but to highlight how each shift has led to widespread violence. Wenger aims to minimize or avoid this violence. Has the violence already started, and how might it differ this time around?

(24:52) How new inventions often replace old methods, and people adapt. AI could be the first technology in our lifetime to put many people out of work. Should we be worried? While we're used to working with people in complex organizations, AI's impact may take time to fully manifest, much like the gradual replacement of horses by cars.

(32:01) Why learning how to work with AI tools can give you a future advantage.

(33:49) The world population faces fertility problems and declining birth rates. If population decline is gradual, it's manageable. But how will it play out?

(38:01) Nat, Neil, and Adil point out one major disagreement they have with the author's idea of how to find meaning in your life.

(40:30) The first of Wenger's proposed solutions is mindfulness and meditation.

(42:19) Wenger emphasizes information freedom with internet access for all, which is a good start. Decentralizing access ensures it can't be stopped or taken away. We also touch on the topic of universal basic income (UBI),

(45:42) Do we just need to "get over" our right to privacy and scarcity thinking? We explain our disagreements with Wenger and how privacy may be incompatible with technological progress.

(55:03) Transforming a place from dangerous to moderately safe is no easy feat. We examine El Salvador's turnaround under Bukele.

(1:00:17) Discussing the significant changes over the span of 20 years. We also talk about cars made in China, noting how the perception of "Made in China" has evolved from being seen as cheap to being recognized for quality.

(1:03:15) If a solution requires "everyone needs to," it's likely not a practical solution. Effective solutions must work with current incentives and human behavior. We discuss the importance of having a fluid career identity and finding deeper meaning in life beyond a job.

(1:07:32) That concludes this episode! Have you read The World After Capital? Let us know your thoughts! Next up, we will be reading Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Grab a copy of the book here, check out our website, and give us a follow on Instagram to stay in the loop on what's happening on the Made You Think podcast.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"I could hardly form the words. My mouth wasn't working. My heart hammered in my ears and pins and needles burned my hands and feet. I squeezed my fists as hard as I could to get them to stop hurting as I stumbled into my office and fumbled through my laptop password, pulling up the message that had thrown me out of bed:

"Nat, someone found a way to hack us. It sounds bad. All of our funds might be at risk."

This was the absolute worst-case scenario. The one I'd pushed to the back of my mind. The one I pretended was impossible so I could sleep at night. I'd always accepted the risk that I could lose all of my money. But if I lost a hundred million dollars of other people's money…"

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today's episode is extra special as we talk all things Crypto Confidential, a brand-new book by our very own co-host, Nathaniel Eliason. Join us as Nat shares the behind-the-scenes journey of writing and launching his book. Whether you're a seasoned crypto enthusiast or just curious, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into the world of crypto through Nat's insightful storytelling.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Nat's journey of writing Crypto Confidential
• Differences in promoting fiction vs. nonfiction
• How Nat learned from other successful book marketers
• Challenges of book promotion and strategy
• The creative process behind book cover design

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Crypto Confidential early release in Toronto (1:56)
• Brandon Sanderson signing 5,000 copies in 3 hours (8:37)
• Brandon Sanderson advice and lectures (8:56)
• 10 Things I Learned Losing 10 Million Dollars (18:30)
• Olympus (50:55)
• Outside the System: Crypto Confidential with Nat Eliason (58:55)

Books Mentioned:

• Crypto Confidential
• The Founders (22:24)
• Zero to One (23:23) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Red Rising (25:08)
• Atomic Habits (26:49) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Three-Body Problem (28:33) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The 4-Hour Body (36:11)
• The 4-Hour Workweek (36:26) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Trust Me, I'm Lying (38:48)
• The Obstacle Is the Way (40:40)
• Ego is the Enemy (41:00) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Deep Work (41:40) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Elantris (42:32)
• Endurance (43:58)
• Empire of the Summer Moon (44:09)
• Kitchen Confidential (59:00)

People Mentioned:

• Brandon Sanderson (8:37)
• Jimmy Soni (22:21)
• Peter Thiel (23:43)
• James Clear (26:50)
• Eric Jorgensen (32:04)
• Paul Millerd (32:17)
• Tim Ferriss (36:03)
• Ryan Holiday (38:32)
• Cal Newport (41:39)
• Cormac McCarthy (43:47)

Show Topics:

(0:00) In today's episode, we delve into Nat's upcoming book, Crypto Confidential, set to release on July 9th. Get your copy here! Nat discusses the book, the preparations for its launch, and the surprise of finding an early-released copy in a Toronto bookstore.

(4:01) We explore the process of how bookstores order books, what it takes to keep them on the shelves, and the criteria for returning unsold copies.

(7:40) Signed copies of books, and how authors get creative in distributing their signature across a wide number of publishings.

(12:52) Nat shares how he balanced promoting Crypto Confidential to his existing audience while also attracting new readers. He reveals his strategy of getting pre-ordered copies into readers' hands early to generate online testimonials by the release date, despite disagreement from his publishers.

(19:38) We talk about how the promotion strategy may change after the book release. At what point do you take your foot off the gas?

(24:16) The effectiveness of word-of-mouth marketing and why it's such a powerful strategy. We compare the promotion of fiction and nonfiction books, noting that fiction is often less promoted by authors and more by publishers. How does promotional work differ between these genres?

(27:33) Nat talks a bit about his upcoming science-fiction book, HUSK, and how he would change his promotion strategy the next time around.

(31:10) How can authors maintain momentum and sustain genuine interest in the book? The difference between organic enthusiasm surrounding the book vs. prompted posts.

(36:00) Insights from successful book marketers and the strategies that contributed to their success. Spoiler: It's NOT about bombarding your email list.

(38:29) The importance of incorporating valuable content into your books. Regardless of the niche, avoid creating "popcorn" books that lack substance.

(43:44) Being committed for the long haul as an author, and how it can often take years and multiple books to see your success.

(45:50) We dive deeper into the book and explore Nat's motivation behind writing it. Plus, Nat emphasizes the importance of portraying both the lows and highs to engage readers emotionally throughout the narrative.

(50:31) What was something that Nat had to cut from the final version of the book? He shares more about his experience with Olympus and how easy it is for people to get carried away while trading.

(55:06) The story of Crypto Confidential began in early 2021 as Nat started to get more into crypto. He eventually found his writing sweet spot by focusing more on narration and less on detailed explanations, with the intermediary chapters providing essential, but non-critical, background information.

(1:01:08) The cover of Crypto Confidential. What guidance was given in order to come up with the final cover of the book?

(1:04:42) Nathaniel Eliason vs. Nat Eliason

(1:07:17) That wraps up this episode! If you'd like to order a copy of Crypto Confidential, you can do so here! Make sure to leave a review and let us know your thoughts on the new book. This is a great read for anyone regardless of if you're into the crypto world or not. Stay tuned for our next episode covering Endurance by Alfred Lansing.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"If the war was to be over by Christmas, as many believed, or at the latest by Easter 1915, tens of thousands of soldiers might be killed or wounded before the guns fell silent. Every army believed that it could crush its opponents within a few months."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Join us as we dive into The First World War by Martin Gilbert. We'll explore the intricate details of WW1, from the seemingly pointless triggers to the significant aftermath that reshaped the world. We'll also touch on intriguing historical anecdotes, like Germany's return in WW2, and the far-reaching consequences of redrawing borders. History lovers, buckle up for this one!

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Technological advancements from cavalry to tanks and planes
• How WW1 redrew the map and ended empires
• The concept of 'war guilt' and its impact
• America's pivotal role and the intercepted telegram
• The seemingly unnecessary triggers of the first World War

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• The Great War on Youtube (2:32)
• Schlieffen Plan (10:57)
• French Foreign legion (16:48)
• Empires before WW1 (34:42)
• Zimmerman Telegram (41:21)
• Marshall Plan (1:13:34)
• They Shall Not Grow Old (1:26:26)

Books Mentioned:

• The First World War
• The Second World War (3:13)
• Shadow Divers (43:46)
• The Power of Geography (1:24:57)
• Blueprint for Armageddon (1:38:21)
• The Brothers K (1:39:40)
• Musashi (1:39:47)

People Mentioned:

• Martin Gilbert
• Ho Chi Minh (3:59)
• David Lloyd George (24:47)
• John J. Pershing (41:03)
• Dan Carlin (1:37:32)
• Ernest Shackleton (1:38:47)

Show Topics:

(0:00) Today, we're covering The First World War by Martin Gilbert. While the book offers a detailed play-by-play of WW1, it wasn't the most enjoyable read. However, we gained significant insights into the war.

(4:53) The war's triggers and conflicts felt somewhat pointless. Despite this, WW1 felt more significant than WW2 as it redrew maps and ended four empires. Unlike WW2's clear-cut good vs. evil narrative, WW1 began with cavalry and ended with advanced technology like planes, tanks, gas, and submarines.

(8:02) Numerous underlying tensions grew and eventually exploded in unpredictable ways. One of the triggers was Germany's insecurity about its geographical position. We delve into the circumstances that led to the start of the war.

(11:10) A major theme was the widespread belief that the war would end quickly, without long-term consequences. We discuss what wars were like before WW1, typically regional with smaller armies and less impact on civilian populations.

(13:57) What was the aftermath of the war like? You might belong to a different town or region, but it may not have affected your daily life much.

(18:00) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about the multiple empires that collapsed during this time.

(20:10) War guilt was a new concept, unlike previous wars where the winning side simply negotiated their gains. The sheer number of deaths and the devastation of this war was shocking.

(25:35) How did the Ottoman Empire get involved and what was their involvement in the war?

(27:05) The Germans came back much stronger in WWII, despite being devastated in WWI. They put up a bigger fight just 20 years later. It leads us to wonder, from where did they find the resources?

(31:38) How the war marked a complete era shift. Would communism have had as much impact in the 20th century without WWI? Would the Soviet Union have emerged?

(34:42) We take a look at a map of empires before WW1 and how the territories looked before then, which leads into our first tangent of this episode!

(37:52) Though Mexico wasn't involved in the war, Germany sent them a telegram promising several U.S. states in exchange for support. The British intercepted this message and informed the U.S.

(40:34) America's entry into the war truly tipped the scales and accelerated the conflict. They joined gradually, but their involvement turned the tide. We discuss the telegram that prompted America's entry into WWI.

(43:58) We were surprised by the advanced use of submarines in WWI. It's fascinating to consider how much the world has changed, especially thinking about the Ottoman Empire, which lasted over 600 years.

(47:49) WWI was the first time oil played a significant role, and the Ottoman Empire had some of the largest oil reserves. Had they survived, they could have controlled one of the 20th century's most crucial resources. From the four dissolved empires, 40 new countries emerged.

(50:12) While book wasn't the most entertaining and it felt repetitive, its importance lies in how it made people rethink the norms and rules of engagement. If a major war broke out next year, for example, there would likely be a similar period of figuring out new ground rules.

(57:15) The Russian Revolution. Two generations of European leaders were responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people. With two major world wars only 20 years apart, the loss of life was staggering.

(1:02:11) In the last 6 months of the war, everyone believed they were losing. The Germans were preparing to surrender, and the British doubted they would make it. After the war, the US never ratified the Treaty of Versailles and chose not to get involved in the aftermath.

(1:06:31) The redrawing of borders after the war marked the end of colonialism, profoundly impacting various parts of the world. Much of the end of colonialism stemmed from the end of WW1 and the dissolution of empires. The poorly executed division of territories led to cascading conflicts in the aftermath.

(1:11:25) The Hapsburg empire isn't extensively covered in the book, yet it was a very old empire, with its dynasty dating back to the 11th century. The exact beginnings are unclear since it follows a family rather than a defined state, making the timeline a bit blurry.

(1:13:34) We talk about the Marshall Plan. Would the Marshall Plan be effective in a kingdom-era setup? Plus, we talk about the idea of 'collective insanity' and how it can be seen as a form of self-governance, where a group loses its rationality as opposed to just an individual.

(1:20:25) There were many overarching themes of the book and the war as a whole: From the end of the old European system to the transition from kingdoms to states.

(1:24:01) Geographical positioning and how that plays a huge impact where you sit on the map. Much of the war is a downstream of geography. Some European countries were at a disadvantage based off of where they are on the map.

(1:30:25) How lives changed drastically because of the war. One day you're working your normal job and the next you're on the front lines of the war.

(1:35:59) Neil and Adil give their final thoughts on the book, Gilbert's writing style, and what they took away from reading the book.

(1:38:47) That wraps up this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll be reading Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Make sure to pick up a copy of the book and head on over to our website to see what's next.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"The tragedy of this world is that no one is happy, whether stuck in a time of pain or of joy. The tragedy of this world is that everyone is alone. For a life in the past cannot be shared with the present. Each person who gets stuck in time gets stuck alone."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we explore the concept of time through the lens of one of the most imaginative books of our time, Einstein's Dreams. The novel portrays Albert Einstein as a young scientist grappling with his dreams as he works on his theory of relativity. This episode promises to spark deep reflection, ignite your curiosity, and challenge your perception of time.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The hidden costs of immortality
• Contemplating a world where every day is a fresh start
• Why it's easy to forget to appreciate the things you have
• How death ultimately gives our life meaning
• Our most obnoxious literary opinions

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

• Click (4:32)

• Einstein's Dreams
• Tao Te Ching (1:33) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Sovereign Individual (12:59) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Fourth Turning (13:01) (Book Episode)
• Logicomix (22:41) (Book Episode)
• East of Eden (30:30) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Unbearable Lightness of Being (32:11)
• The First World War (34:50)
• The Brothers K (34:51)
• Musashi (34:53)
• Infinite Jest (37:34) (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Atlas Shrugged (37:58) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Gödel, Escher, Bach (43:45) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)

• Alan Lightman
• John Steinbeck (18:31)
• Werner Heisenberg (23:29)
• Milan Kundera (32:23)
• David Perell (44:29)

(0:00) In today's episode, we're covering Einstein's Dreams by Alan Lightman. Adil shares his experience going through the book for the 3rd time, noting its unique approach devoid of traditional characters yet filled with intense emotional resonance across the theme of 'time'.

(2:43) The stories challenge the way we think about time, with each chapter introducing a unique time variable that initially appears distinct on the surface. However, beneath the surface, these chapters resonate with aspects of our own reality. We list off a few chapters that were top of mind for us.

(6:10) Death is what gives life meaning. We explore this concept by diving into one of the short stories where nobody dies. If you know that time is infinite, how would you spend that time?

(8:45) Which chapter(s) of Einstein's Dreams did we connect with the most?

(11:16) We discuss the concept of sleep training, contemplating the ideal scenario where babies would sleep according to their natural rhythms. However, balancing the baby's freedom to sleep spontaneously with the demands of a structured work and life schedule can be a struggle.

(12:32) Nat, Neil, and Adil ponder the scenario if everyone were to just live one day. You wouldn't know seasons, and all you'll ever know is what the current day brings.

(16:08) Connections between Einstein's Dreams and a previous read on the podcast, The Fourth Turning.

(17:51) Despite not having main characters (aside from Einstein and Besso), this book still manages to drive a lot of emotions. We admire Lightman's ability to write in a soft, empathetic way, while painting the picture for readers very effectively.

(19:59) Were these short stories from the book thoughts that Einstein may have had in real life as he worked towards his theories on time and relativity?

(23:45) We touch on a story from the book where every day is truly a fresh start, and there is no knowledge of the past or future.

(26:45) Doing everything as if it's for the first time will give you excitement, but it's also meaningful to act as if you're doing something for the very last time.

(28:25) Einstein's theory of general relativity, and how at the time of this theory, it was still unknown in the world of physics that the world is constantly expanding rather than fixed.

(30:27) Though it may not be the longest book, it still hits hard. Nat, Neil, and Adil share their appreciation for Einstein's Dreams being impactful despite the length. It's one of those books that can make you feel a different way each time you read it.

(36:47) Shoutout to Jack for the book recommendation on Musashi! If you have any book recommendations that you'd like us to pick up for the show, you can submit them to us here.

(38:55) You can get away with a lot in books, but what about a 35,000 word speech? We talk about John Galt's mighty speech in Atlas Shrugged. So long as you give the readers a reason to finish the book and recommend it to others, you can really do what you want within the pages.

(44:17) That concludes this thought-provoking episode! Next up, we're tackling Martin Gilbert's The First World War. Make sure to give our new Instagram page a follow and shoot us a book recommendation. If you have any recs, please send them our way!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"But if science tells you that something's impossible, and it happens anyway, it means one of two things. Either the science is wrong, or it's a scam."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're exploring the 3 Body Problem TV series on Netflix, inspired by Cixin Liu's acclaimed novel. Listen in as we discuss Season 1's adaptation from book to screen, analyzing character shifts, narrative changes, and the portrayal of scientific concepts. If you enjoyed The Three-Body Problem book series or consider yourself a sci-fi fanatic, this one is for you!

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• What narrative changes and expansions were made for the TV adaptation
• The show's production costs compared to Game of Thrones
• How the creators translated the scientific aspects from the book series
• Our main praises and critiques of the show
• Book or series - is there a clear winner?

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• 3 Body Problem on Netflix (0:39)
• Costs of 3 Body Problem (1:08)
• Dune (14:28)
• Game of Thrones (15:50)
• Breaking Bad (40:35)
• Primer (41:15)

Books Mentioned:

• The Three-Body Problem (0:39) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Dune (14:28)
• The Road (28:40)
• Blood Meridian (28:46)
• No Country for Old Men (30:06)

People Mentioned:

• Cixin Liu
• John Bradley (26:09)
• Cormac McCarthy (28:35)
• Martin Gilbert (30:40)
• Shane Carruth (42:01)

Show Topics:

(0:31) Welcome to our first TV show episode! Today, we're covering the TV series based on one of our previous reads, The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu. Go check out the episode on the book if you haven't already! We dive into our overall thoughts on Season 1 and how it measured up to the book.

(4:09) *Spoiler alert!* If you haven't watched the show or read the book series, we suggest you do that first before continuing this episode. We talk a bit about the depth, or lack of depth, of the characters in the book and TV series.

(6:55) Neil talks about the pivotal scene in Episode 5 that changed his mind about the show, and how the shows portrayal of something can be completely different than what you had pictured in your head.

(9:38) From character shifts to the order of events, how did the show differ from the book series?

(13:48) How the creators of the show had a unique challenge of keeping the intriguing scientific elements from the book series in the show while maintaining a pace that keeps the viewers interested.

(15:43) The cost per episode in 3BP was higher than the final season of Game of Thrones. Which aspects of the show and scenes may have taken up the largest pieces of the budget?

(21:24) We talk about the relationships between the heroes of the books and how they're all close friends. It sets you up to think there might be a happy ending... but is there?

(25:36) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their thoughts on a character addition that wasn't in the books.

(28:45) From Blood Meridian to The First World War, many books have some grotesque elements to it. It's interesting to see how authors capture the emotions and events from something that actually happened and put them into a book.

(32:55) Our thoughts on the scene where the universe blinks, and how it was shown in the movie vs. in the book.

(34:50) We list off one major criticism of the show, as well as many things that we felt the producers did a great job on.

(39:03) How effective was the show in portraying scientific aspects from the book? We share our final thoughts 3BP Season 1.

(42:10) That concludes this episode! Make sure to check out our episode on The Three-Body Problem and check out the Netflix series if you haven't already. We highly recommend it! Next up is Einstein's Dreams by Alan Lightman. Pick up a copy of the book and read along with us!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"We've never had a generation more focused on its feelings and, frankly, not one more tyrannized by their feelings."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're delving into Abigail Shrier's Bad Therapy, a thought-provoking book which highlights the impact of therapy on individuals, especially younger generations. Join us as we explore the nuances of therapy, its incentives, and its effects.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Challenges of parenting in a therapy-centric culture
• Unintended consequences of therapeutic incentives
• The fine line between taking thoughts too seriously vs. dismissing them
• Why boundary-setting is crucial as a parent
• Implications of having an external locus of control

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Arnold (15:37)
• Spiritual bypassing (23:21)
• Washington Post on birth control (46:55)
• How We Feel (54:01)
• Coach Carter (57:47)
• How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives (1:25:31)

Books Mentioned:

• Bad Therapy
• The Body Keeps the Score (07:09) (Book Episode)
• Irreversible Damage (40:44)
• The Fourth Turning (1:08:32) (Book Episode)

People Mentioned:

• Abigail Shrier

Show Topics:

(0:00) In today's episode, we're covering Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier, who discusses the impact of therapy on individuals, particularly younger generations, and questions the efficacy and motives behind widespread therapeutic practices.

(1:57) We provide an overview of the book, examining the sense of loneliness and sadness prevalent in today's youth. It poses the question of whether therapy-related interventions are actually a part of the problem rather than the solution.

(5:32) How incentives in therapy can sometimes lead to unintended consequences. Shrier highlights that therapists often prefer patients with milder mental health issues, as these sessions can be more relaxed. This raises questions about the subjective nature of screening and diagnostic tools in mental health care.

(10:15) The distinction between chronic and acute treatment, noting how the medical industry often favors chronic cases for their profitability. We touch on various types of therapy, noting that the results of physical therapy, for example, are much more tangible than talk therapy.

(12:42) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk a bit about their personal experiences with therapy.

(15:55) Why going to the gym and being physically active can improve well-being, and how it offers a sense of control and measurable progress in various aspects of life.

(21:12) Shrier emphasizes the lack of agency children have in deciding to continue or end therapy. We also discuss how dwelling on problems, or forced rumination, can exacerbate issues, especially in the context of depression and anxiety.

(25:19) We discuss how therapy can often lead us to give undue weight to passing thoughts, turning them into more significant concerns than they should have been.

(29:33) It can be a challenge for parents to know when to seek therapy for children or teens. The author suggests exploring all alternatives before turning to therapy. We also dive into the theme of internal vs. external locus of control, where the fear of making mistakes can lead to seeking external validation.

(34:25) Are doctors too quick to prescribe medications in non-serious cases?

(39:51) Where is the balance between taking every thought and emotion seriously vs. dismissing them? We discuss generational differences, stoic parenting, the importance of discussing feelings with a trusted friend or partner, and the impact on children who feel unheard.

(45:30) Similar to therapy and mental health, public sentiments on various topics can evolve over time. Nat, Neil, and Adil draw parallels with the changing views on vaccines, from widespread acceptance to increased skepticism post-Covid. We also touch on the topic of birth control, highlighting the lack of female perspectives in these discussions often dominated by male doctors.

(53:26) Happiness, when constantly pursued, can often evade us. Instead, we explore the concept of finding contentment and balance in life, recognizing that happiness is not always the ultimate objective.

(56:50) When we attribute our life circumstances solely to external factors, it can lead us to feel powerless.

(1:02:37) We explore the notion of discipline and touch upon various parenting styles, including gentle parenting.

(1:06:05) Differences in the cultural dynamics of Zen X and Millennial parents. Each generation has its parenting narrative. It's about finding the balance between micromanaging and giving your child space, allowing kids to explore within set boundaries.

(1:09:14) We discuss the dynamics of the nuclear family and how it affects the level of involvement from extended family members.

(1:14:11) Differences in parenting style based on immigration status, and how punishment was carried out between different generations of parents.

(1:18:37) There's an internal pressure to be a flawless parent, often fueled by therapy that revisits childhood experiences. This cycle of rumination can lead to hyper-vigilance in parenting.

(1:24:08) Social media's impact on how we view and express ourselves on different issues.

(1:28:56) The level of risk in your humor often reflects the closeness of your relationships. However, we must be careful as words can always be misconstrued.

(1:31: 37) Can empathy actually have negative consequences? Nat, Neil, and Adil share their final thoughts and takeaways from the book.

(1:36:48) That wraps up this episode! If you were intrigued by today's discussion, check out Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. Next up on the show, we'll be covering Einstein's Dreams. Also, be sure to check out our new Instagram page!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"I believe that there is one story in the world, and only one. . . . Humans are caught—in their lives, in their thoughts, in their hungers and ambitions, in their avarice and cruelty, and in their kindness and generosity too—in a net of good and evil. . . . There is no other story. A man, after he has brushed off the dust and chips of his life, will have left only the hard, clean questions: Was it good or was it evil? Have I done well—or ill?"

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil and Adil dive into John Steinbeck's masterpiece, East of Eden. Following the lives of two families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons, this novel ultimately reflects on the timeless struggle between darkness and light within the human soul.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The timeless battle between good and evil
• Why having a fixed worldview can lead to hurt
• Parallels between East of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel
• A glimpse into what life was like at the start of the Great War
• How parents' actions impact their children's lives

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• East of Eden movie (1:02:47)
• East of Eden Netflix series (1:03:21)
• Three-Body Problem series (1:03:46)
• Shantaram (TV series) (1:07:21)
• Harry Potter 20th Anniversary: Return to Hogwarts (1:10:41)

Books Mentioned:

• East of Eden (Nat's Book Notes)
• Flowers for Algernon (0:02) (Book Episode)
• Grapes of Wrath (0:59)
• Infinite Jest (4:23) (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Three-Body Problem (6:32) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Atlas Shrugged (7:52) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Shantaram (1:06:46)
• Einstein's Dreams (1:32:12)
• The Moon is Down (1:33:20)
• Lying (1:47:43)
• The Fountainhead (1:57:59)
• Bad Therapy (2:00:04)

People Mentioned:

• John Steinbeck
• John Gray (1:29:34)
• Ayn Rand (1:58:30)

Show Topics:

(0:00) Today, we're diving into John Steinbeck's East of Eden, a novel that stood as a pinnacle in Steinbeck's illustrious career. We kick off the episode by exploring Steinbeck's candidness as shown in his accompanying journal.

(2:57) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their experience reading the book for the second time, each finding deeper connections to its major themes and characters this time around.

(6:27) We draw parallels between East of Eden and The Three-Body Problem contrasting their narrative styles. While East of Eden is emotionally impactful with rich characters, The Three-Body Problem unfolds in a flatter, more plot-driven world. Check out our episode on The Three-Body Problem if you haven't already!

(9:31) Discussing Steinbeck's immersive writing style, we explore how he vividly paints the environments and characters of the book, making us feel as though they are living within its pages.

(13:43) We delve into the characters of the novel, particularly Cathy, and how she shaped the narrative. Cathy doesn't always see the good, and often fails to take reponsibility for the things that happen to her.

(16:04) The book follows two main families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons. There is a major parallel of "two sons" as Adam has two sons, Steinbeck has two sons, and Cain and Abel are two sons.

(21:06) It wasn't the plot that drew us into the book, but rather the characters, and how they demonstrate the lessons taught in the novel. One of those lessons is the power of choice, and how you must take responsibility for your choices.

(26:31) Listen in as we read an excerpt from Chapter 34 on the topic of good vs. evil, and how humans are caught in their lives, thoughts, ambitions. "Have I done well or ill?"

(34:07) Adam has two sons, Aron and Caleb. Though theoretically, could Caleb be Charles' son? We talk about the similarities between Charles and Caleb, and Adam and Aron.

(37:38) Examining the allegory of Cain and Abel within the novel, we discuss how Steinbeck portrays the struggle between good and evil. Steinbeck presents a compelling argument for the power of choice, demonstrating that no matter how many times you choose evil, you always have the power to choose good. It's your reponsibility to make that choice.

(41:08) Nat, Neil, and Adil reflect on pivotal moments in the story, such as Cathy's final act of redemption and Caleb's sacrificial gesture for his father.

(49:51) Lee's character, and how relatable he is. It's often the ones that are selflessly giving of themselves that are living the richest lives.

(53:31) There are many little instances of heartbreak throughout the book. East of Eden shows the clear impact that parents have on their kids, demonstrating that their actions have consequnces.

(55:47) We talk about Adam and Charles' father, Cyrus, his interesting character, and more about the parallels in the book between the families and generations.

(1:02:46) The movie based off of East of Eden that came out in the 1950s and our thoughts on the Three-Body Problem TV series.

(1:06:38) Books that turn into shows or movies can be very hit or miss. Neil gives an example of a show based on a book that didn't live up to his expectation.

(1:10:14) How much input does an author have over a movie or TV series based on their book? We talk about the Harry Potter movie series, and how the wardrobe, casting, and scenery evolved throughout the series.

(1:14:12) East of Eden serves not only as a compelling narrative, but also as a historical reflection of its time. From the impact of World War II to discussions on ice factories, Steinbeck weaves societal issues into the fabric of the story.

(1:19:07) Because we polluted the land and water so much, milk pasteurization became very common.

(1:22:18) Squatters rights, bankruptcy laws, and seeking asylum at the border. How does social media affect the visibility and knowledge on these topics?

(1:25:37) When you have a very fixed view on what the world should look like, it opens the door for that to be shattered down the line. Steinbeck made the point that you really should be more realistic about how you see the world.

(1:33:11) Steinbeck had a novel that flew under the radar around the time of WW2 where people had to distribute unauthorized copies throughout Europe. Plus, was Steinbeck an asset to the CIA during his time in Europe?

(1:36:32) It's possible that Cathy's character was based on Steinbeck's ex-wife, which adds more power and meaning behind the family dynamic in the story.

(1:39:54) Within the novel are moments of clarity, both sad and joyful. It reminds us that we all have those moments where it feels like we're waking up from something.

(1:43:05) We read an excerpt about Steinbeck's ex-wife who was the mother to his two boys. Was Cathy's character based on her, and could that be why we see so many parallels between the book and Steinbeck's life?

(1:50:53) Nat, Neil, and Adil read off some of their favorite lines from the book! Do you have any favorite Steinbeck lines? Send them to us!

(1:59:58) That wraps up this episode! Next on the Made You Think Podcast, we'll be reading Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. Also, make sure to check out our new instagram page- @madeyouthinkpodcast! Give us a follow to stay up-to-date with what's to come on the show.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!