Manon Pietra is a diversity, equity and inclusion partner at Canva.

She's also the "other mum" as she puts it. That is, the non-birthing person in a two-mum family.

What I love most about this conversation is the reflections around what we assume to be a gendered experience, because while Manon and her wife may be similar when it comes to biology, that doesn't mean that Manon would go on to understand what her wife would go through in pregnancy, birth, and beyond.

Here, we talk about what she's learned about being the non-birthing mum, what to start and stop asking same sex parents, the importance of robust paid parental leave, and why we still return to work as though nothing has changed.

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This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which I''m lucky enough to raise my son always was and always will be Aboriginal land.I Pay The Rent and you can too here.

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