MaryAnn McKibben Dana is a writer, a free-range pastor, a speaker, and a leadership coach. Her most recent book is Hope: A User's Manual. MaryAnn embarked on this book as a way of writing herself back to hope after a grueling few years of life and world events. In this episode, MaryAnn and Jonathan talk about hope that is not predictive, the difference between hope and optimism, and the ways that hope orients us toward the good, not necessarily toward success.

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