Mutuality Matters

By CBE InternationalReligion & Spirituality Christianity

Mutuality Matters episodes

January 17, 2025Mutuality and Masculinity with Zachary Wagner: Part 1 (Home, Church, and World)
This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. In this special two-part interview, we’re joined by Zachary C. Wagner, director of programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians and author of Non-Toxic Masculinity, to discuss the role unhelpful views of masculinity impact how women and men function together.

Guest Bio
Zachary Wagner is a writer, researcher, and ordained minister––thinker of thoughts and feeler of feelings who lives in Chicagoland. He is pursuing a DPhil (PhD) in New Testament studies at Keble College, University of Oxford. He also serves as the director of Programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians, where he co-hosts the CPT Podcast. His research interests include economics in the ancient world, divine wages in Second Temple Judaism and early Christianity, Pauline epistles, the Gospel of Matthew, and New Testament masculinities. His first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality, was published in 2023 with Intervarsity Press. Zach’s other writing interests include evangelical and “post-vangelical” Christian discipleship, theological formation, and speaking against church-based abuse.
Buy Zachary’s book, Non-Toxic Masculinity
Follow Zachary on Instagram and X
Read “Broken Masculinity” on the Center for Pastor Theologians

Related Resources
New Voices: Non-Toxic Masculinity with Zachary Wagner
Jesus’ Vision for Masculinity: The (Actual) Best A Man Can Get
My Kingdom for A World of Such Men: 3 Hallmarks of Healthy Masculinity

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
31 min
January 10, 2025(Women and Words) Comparing Bible Translations with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer
In the first episode, host Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer to discuss Bible translation. Aída considers the different goals of translation teams from translations focused on a word for word translation; to meaning for meaning; to thought for thought and those that are a paraphrase. Each translation team from the NRSV, to the NIV, KJV and the ESV elevate their priorities in ways that are often helpful. In addressing the complexities of Bible translation, Aída gave the following helpful insight. She said:
Translators are caught between rendering Form vs. meaning. A “formal translation”/formal-equivalence/literal/word for word/linguistic= Translation tries to preserve form (syntax and sentence structure) of the original to convey meaning. The emphasis is the original text, E.g. NRSV, NAS. It Allows the reader to interpret.
A “dynamic-equivalence”/functional-equivalence/cultural =Translation expresses the original meaning in the natural form of the receptor language. The receptor language is emphasized. Translators seek equivalence in meaning or thought for thought translation, E.g., TEV, NEB. It does more interpretation for readers.
A “paraphrase”=A freely rendered restatement (of another translation) of the author’s thoughts in different words. But it is not a commentary, e.g. Living Bible, The Message.

Aída cited those who contribute to the ESV team, noting their commitment to male-authority. She also expressed her preference for the NRSV assessing how the different translations render the crucial text 1 Tim 2:4–5—as it explains the work of Christ. She said:
“who desires all people (anthrōpōs) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men (anthrōpōs), the man (anthrōpōs) Christ Jesus,” ESV
“who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,” NIV
“who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, (NASB)
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (KJV)
“who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, (NRSVupdated)+ CEB
“God wants everyone to be saved and to know the whole truth, which is, There is only one God, and Christ Jesus is the only one who can bring us to God. Jesus was truly human. (CEV)-a dynamic equivalent
“Our Creator longs to set all people free and guide them into the full understanding of the truth. For there is only one Great Spirit, and only one who can bring the Great Spirit and human beings together in peace. That one is Creator Sets Free (Jesus) the Chosen One, who is himself human.” (First Nations Version)
“Our Savior God wants all humans to be saved and to come into knowledge of truth. For God is one, one is also a mediator between God and humans, human Christ Jesus, the One having given himself as a ransom on behalf of all” (ABS). 1 Timothy NCCS ABS 48-51
For clarity on confusing passages that seem to diminish the dignity, value and agency of women or minorities, Aída recommends Bible translation teams comprised of men and women who do not unite in their preference for male-leadership as the ESV translation team does. Aída also celebrated the diversity of opinion on the NIV translation team which is led by expert Bible translators who differ on their view on women’s leadership. It’s always better to move beyond a single narrative on key issues.
Aída discussed the NT and OT texts that challenge 3 New Testament passages (1 Tim. 2:11-15; Eph. 5:21-23) which routinely eclipse the many passages that demonstrate women’s leadership, like Acts 2:2-21; Gal. 3:28 and passages that demonstrate the leadership of Huldah and Deborah.

Aída ends by emphasizing the oneness of man and woman, cited in Genesis 1:26-30 as both were called to rule over the world together, in a world without sin. Paul picks this up in Galatians 3:28, we are clothed in Christ—a purple robe, our true identity.
In considering marriage, specifically in Eph. 5. Aída explained that Ephesians 5:18-21 is one sentence in Greek, with 2 main ideas:
“And do not get yourself intoxicated with an intoxicating substance, in which is wild living, but be filled with the Spirit.
What does it mean to be filled with the Spirit?
Paul then uses 5 participles to describe what it means to be filled with the Spirit:
“speaking to one another in psalm and hymns and spiritual songs,
Singing
Making melody in your heart to the Lord
Thanking always for all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to Father- God
Submitting yourselves to one another in fear/respect of Christ.”
Verse 22 has no verb in the best Greek manuscripts: “the women…to own husbands as to the Lord…”
Aída will return next month to address Bible translation as it has been used to further abuse and ethnic prejudice rather than human flourishing.

Guest Bio
Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer, Ph.D., Th.M., M.Div., is senior professor of New Testament at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, S. Hamilton, MA. Born and reared in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, she has served as community organizer, minister, and educator in a variety of urban and suburban settings. She has over 200 publications, including 20 books, among these are commentaries of James, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, and 2 Corinthians and books encouraging women in leadership, such as Beyond the Curse: Women Called to Ministry, Global Voices on Biblical Equality, Christian Egalitarian Leadership, The Goddess Revival: A Biblical Response to Goddess Spirituality, Marriage at the Crossroads, and the novel, Cave of Little Faces. An ordained Presbyterian minister, she is married to the Rev. Dr. William David Spencer. Their blog is entitled Applying Biblical Truths Today. They have one adult son, Stephen.

Related Resources
Creating Gender-Accurate Bible Translations
Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel
Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
38 min
December 13, 2024 Women, Honor, and Head Coverings with Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall (Women in Scripture and History)
In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall. Dr. Westfall shares her background, providing context that helps explain her interest in the New Testament and Paul. Her mentors, service, analytical mind and questions led her into digging into the New Testament and Paul, and women’s sexuality. She provides excellent context and interpretations of Paul’s difficult passages. She specifically focuses on how Paul instructs the church to honor the traditionally discarded women with the Ancient Corinthain symbol of honorable women, the head covering.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters Podcast
00:24 Meet Dr. Cynthia Westfall
01:07 Cynthia's Journey to Faith and Scholarship
03:19 Struggles with Traditional Interpretations
07:07 Embracing Egalitarianism
15:01 Paul's Subversion of Cultural Norms
19:51 Introduction to the Topic
20:26 Traditional Interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11
21:22 Questioning Traditional Views
23:10 Alternate Interpretations Based on Veiling History
24:38 Cultural Significance of Veiling
26:55 Paul's True Intentions
28:54 Implications for Women in the Church
34:51 Order in Worship Services
37:17 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Guest Bio 
Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall is associate professor of New Testament and has been at McMaster Divinity College since 2005, teaching courses in New Testament with a specialization in the book of Hebrews, Greek exegesis, biblical interpretation, intertextuality, women in ministry, biblical social justice and welcoming the other, courses which are devoted to a commitment to transformation by God’s word through its application to all aspects of life and ministry. Dr. Westfall has a constellation of research interests that are focused on issues concerned with the New Testament and its interpretation with contemporary methodologies and its translation. She places a special focus on texts and issues that have been traditionally overlooked. She has a priority of mentoring academic and professional students as well as others. Her ministry experience includes campus ministry, ministry to the urban community, support of the immigrant community in the US and Canada and the support of women pursuing God’s call on their lives.
She currently serves on the board of Canadian Baptist Missions (CBM). She has served as chair of the board of Wentworth Baptist Church in Hamilton, ON, and continues to serve the church is various ways including preaching, consulting and serving as a delegate as well as speaking and teaching in the churches, organizations and assembly of the Canadian Baptists of Ontario and Quebec (CBOQ).
Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall is professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College in Canada. 
Resources by Dr. Westfall
Cynthia Long Westfall. Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christ (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic). 2016.
Mutuality Matters podcast: Redeeming Paul - Part 1, Redeeming Paul - Part 2
Mutuality Magazine: Difficult Passages in the Bible and How to Understand Them
Priscilla Papers: On Developing a Consistent Hermeneutical Approach to the Application of General Scriptures

CBE International Conference Audios:
Paul and Gender: Highlights and Bombshells
The Symbol of the Veil in the Ancient Near East and Today: Subjugation or Honor - Part 1
The Symbol of the Veil in the Ancient Near East and Today: Subjugation or Honor? Part 2
In Church or at Home? What is 1 Timothy 2:8-15 Really About?
Answering Those Who Ask: Moving from Defense to a Breakthrough

Relevant Resources
Roy Ciampa was mentioned in the interview explaining the educational level of women in the New Testament Church his podcast interview with Dr. Mimi Hadad in Women and Words: Marriage in the Greco-Roman World in Translation with Dr. Rogy Ciampa
Dr. Westfall references Kenneth Baily’s book about women in the Middle East. See Cynthia Long Westfall’s review of his book: Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes
Veil Bound or Veiled Beauty? By Kay Blevins Calabrese

Disclaimer 
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 
41 min
December 06, 2024(Home, Church, and World) The Five Myths of Purity Culture with Dr. Camden Morgante
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Todd and Tara Korpi sit down with Dr. Camden Morgante to discuss her new book, Recovering from Purity Culture. The conversation explores the impact of purity culture on both men and women, the myths propagated by purity teachings, and practical steps for healing and recovery. Dr. Morgante shares her personal journey and professional insights as a psychologist, offering valuable guidance for individuals and couples striving for a healthier understanding of sexuality and spirituality.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
00:19 Welcome and Guest Introduction
01:13 Dr. Camden Morgante's Background
13:41 Impact on Women Raised in Purity Culture
16:55 Support CBE International
17:23 Impact on Men Raised in Purity Culture
24:41 Techniques for Healing from Shame-Based Sexuality
27:03 Purity Culture's Impact on Church Leadership

Bio
Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist with nearly 15 years of experience as a therapist and college professor. She owns a private therapy practice focusing on women’s issues, relationships, sexuality, trauma, and spirituality, and is a frequent speaker. Dr. Camden’s mission is to help Christians heal their faith from toxic beliefs. She is the author of Recovering from Purity Culture. Dr. Camden lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with her husband and their daughter and son.
Recovering From Purity Culture
Visit www.drcamden.com
Follow Camden Morgante on Facebook and Instagram

Related Resources
5 Purity Culture Myths and Why They Are False Promises
My Body Kept Score: What Purity Culture Didn’t Know about Trauma
7 Lies That Purity Culture Teaches Women
Promises, Promises: Questioning the Protection of Purity Culture

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
32 min
November 25, 2024Bible Translation vs. Interpretation: Where Bible Translators Go Wrong with Hélène Dallaire (Women and Words)
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad and Dr. Hélène Dallaire engage in a rich discussion on women's roles in biblical scholarship, the challenges faced in male-dominated fields, the impact of flawed Bible translations on women, and the crucial need for translating Scripture accurately to empower women. They explore stories of women overcoming barriers, the significance of mentoring in leadership, and the broader cultural implications of hierarchical teachings.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
00:02 Breaking Gender Norms in Academia
01:28 Impact of Bible Translations on Women
05:06 The Role of Faith Communities in Addressing Abuse
05:52 Reinterpreting “Helper” in Genesis
11:08 Challenges and Progress for Women in Ministry
18:23 Mentorship and Leadership Development
25:23 Future of Bible Translation and Women's Roles
29:51 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement
33:01 Closing Remarks and Farewell

Dr. Hélène Dallaire earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:
The Baker Illustrated Study Bible
Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP

Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:
“Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill
“Women: Let’s Use Our Voices – Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale; A review of
Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament
“Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage Magazine.
Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.
Related Resources
An Update on CBE’s Translation Project
Words Matter: How a Corrected Translation Transformed a Community
Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
34 min
November 08, 2024(Home, Church, and World) How Church Movements Go from Freeing to Restricting Women with Dr. Joy Qualls
This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Dr. Joy Qualls, professor at Biola University and author of God Forgive us for Being Women, to discuss the barriers women face in egalitarian settings to fully walking out their call.

Guest Bio
Joy Qualls is a nationally recognized writer and speaker.  Joy currently serves as an Associate Professor of Communication Studies and Associate Dean in the Division of Communication at Biola University. Joy writes and speaks on effective communication, leadership, and who we are as images bearers of Christ.  Joy has a passion for the local church and serving the body of Christ through teaching and consultation.  Joy is married to Kevin (a Licensed Professional Counselor) and together they teach on healthy relationships including marriage and parenting.  They are parents to Blakeley and Soren.

Joy is the author of “God Forgive Us For Being Women: Rhetoric, Theology and the Pentecostal Tradition” (Wipf and Stock, 2018) and is featured in several publications including Influence Magazine, The Table, and Biola Magazine as well as an author in several edited volumes.  Joy has been the featured speaker for local church services and events as well as a sought after as a conference speaker and communication consultant.

Follow Joy Qualls on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Related Resources
God Forgive us for Being Women
New Voices: Pastors’ Wives and Medieval Religion with Dr. Beth Allison Barr
Uncovering and Dismantling Barriers for Women Pastors
Resolving Five Complementarian Protests to Priscilla the Pastor-Teacher
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
36 min
November 01, 2024 (Women and Words) What is the most mistranslated Bible verse about women? with Dr. Hélène Dallaire
In this episode of Mutuality Matters, “Women and Words: Bible Translation and Why it Matters,” Dr. Helene Dallaire, who holds a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies and serves as the Earl S. Callen Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages at Denver Seminary. This episode touches on the most mistranslated verse in Scripture, prophetesses in the Old and New Testament, Genesis 1 and 2, and more!

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters
01:00 Biblical Texts and Women's Roles
02:44 Cultural Context and Scripture
06:21 Ethical Systems in the Bible
09:52 Women in Biblical History
11:27 Translation Issues and Gender
15:22 Prophets and Prophetesses
28:04 Biblical Equality in Creation
35:59 Conclusion and Resources

Guest Bio
Dr. Hélène Dallaire is our guest today. Hélène earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:
The Baker Illustrated Study Bible
Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP
Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:
“Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill
“Women: Let’s Use Our Voices - Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale
A review of Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament
“Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage
Magazine

Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.

Related Resources

Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation
A Familiar Picture: An Update on CBE's Translation Project
The Central Role of Old Testament Prophetesses with Hélène Dallaire

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
38 min
October 25, 2024 (Side by Side) How to Shape an Irresistible Egalitarian Church Culture with Rev. Lisa Johnson
What could it look like to build an egalitarian culture in our churches and organizations? In this episode, Rev. Lisa Johnson, executive director of leadership formation for the ECO denomination, joins Layla and Rob to discuss culture change through proactively inviting women into leadership, doggedly pursuing the 30 percent rule, and being intentional about representation. Beyond her many practical exhortations, listeners will be compelled by Lisa’s description of a culture marked by God’s “irresistible vision” for women and men partnering together in ministry.

Guest Bio
“Rev. Lisa Johnson grew up in Orange County, CA and received her BA in Communication Studies at Westmont College. She received her MDiv at Princeton Seminary and was ordained in 1999. She has ministered at five different churches in New Jersey, Santa Barbara, Orange County, and San Diego as an associate pastor. She now serves as the Executive Director of Leadership Formation for ECO and the Director of Mentored Ministry for FIT. Lisa has a passion for teaching, discipleship, leadership development, and spiritual formation, and loves serving ECO churches in this capacity. She lives in San Diego (Coronado), CA with her husband and has two young adult children, Ellie and Luke.” See more at https://eco-pres.org/staff.

Mentioned in this episode: Better Together: How Women and Men Can Heal the Divide and Work Together to Transform the Future

Related Resources

Video: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive

Complementarianism Exists in Egalitarian Organizations and Churches Because of Patriarchy

Retreating from Retreats: An Egalitarian Vision for Church Conferences

Seven Egalitarian Leaders Reflect on the Movement’s Past, Present, and Future

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
40 min
October 18, 2024(Home, Church, and World) Penny Preaches with Amy and Rob Dixon
This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Amy and Rob Dixon who have co-authored the children’s book Penny Preaches and joined us to discuss their book and raising children to empower women.

Guest Bios
Amy Dixon is the author of three picture books––Maurice the Unbeastly, Sophie’s Animal Parade, and Marathon Mouse––as well as a middle-grade novel. When she’s not writing, she is editing and marketing other people’s books. She writes from her home in Clovis, California, where she lives on a steady diet of popcorn and coffee.
Rob Dixon is the author of Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships. In addition to serving on InterVarsity staff for more than twenty-six years, Rob teaches at Fuller Theological Seminary and Fresno Pacific University. In his free time, Rob enjoys pickleball, long runs, and cheering for the LA Dodgers.

Related Resources
Penny Preaches
Side by Side theme of the Mutuality Matters podcast with Rob Dixon and Layla Van Gerpen
The First Woman Who Preached to You
“It’s a Shame You’re a Girl”: Becoming the Sort of Woman Who Wants to Preach
Mutuality Matters: Why Didn’t God Make Me a Boy so I Could be a Preacher?
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.
34 min
October 11, 2024 (Global Impact) Women and Peace in the Holy Lands with Dr. Salim Munayer
In this episode, Mimi Haddad and Kim Dickson interview Dr. Salim Munayer about his work on reconciliation in the Holy Lands. During the first half of the interview, he describes the steps involved in difficult reconciliations. In the second half of the interview, he discusses Jesus’s counter-cultural inclusion of women and their necessary inclusion in creating a lasting peace in the world.

Guest Bio
Salim J. Munayer is executive director and founder of Musalaha Ministry of Reconciliation, which has been bringing Israelis and Palestinian together since 1990 and creating a forum for reconciliation. Salim is a Palestinian-Israeli born in Lod as one of six children and received his BA from Tel Aviv University in History and Geography, his MA from Fuller Theological Seminary, graduate studies in New Testament from Pepperdine University and his PhD from the Oxford Center of Mission Studies in the UK. His doctoral dissertation was written on “The Ethnic Identity of Palestinian Arab Christian Adolescents in Israel.” He has published several books on reconciliation, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Christians in Israel and the Palestinian authority, his most recent work is Through My Enemy’s Eyes: Envisioning Reconciliation in Israel-Palestine, co-authored with Lisa Loden. Salim served as academic dean of the Bethlehem Bible College from 1989 to 2008 and is a professor at the college. He is also an adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Salim is married to Kay, founder of the Daylight Project, a charity that advocates for social justice among the marginalized in Palestinian and Israeli society. She is also a contributing writer on Another’s Voice, a blog by women providing hopeful perspectives in the midst of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Together they have four adult sons, Jack, Daniel, John, and Sam.

Other Resources
Dr. Salim Munayer began Musalaha: A Vision of Reconciliation
Erica Chenoweth was referenced in this interview. Foreign Policy has recognized Chenoweth as one of the top scholars addressing nonviolent resistance and wrote: Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict.
To learn more about Christianity in the Holy Lands listen to the Mutuality Matters Global Impact Interview with Grace Al-Zoughbi
Like Dr. Munayer describing seeing his own struggles in scripture, read Grace Al-Zoughbi’s Mutuality article: God's Surprising Hesed: Reading Ruth as a Palestinian Woman

Disclaimer 
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 
37 min