Jay Allen interviews Todd Conklin about his new book, The Stability Trap, exploring why even safe, stable organizations can fail. They discuss the "drive to zero," complacency, pressures on middle management, wearables and data, and lessons from aviation and the pandemic.

The episode also covers how AI was used to reorganize the book’s ideas and help craft its ending, and offers practical reframes: treat safety as a capacity, see workers as system monitors, and retool systems to match capacity with risk. The book is available now.