Practical Founders Podcast

Last year I interviewed three-time software founder Matt Watson on this podcast about his successful practical founder journeys. Matt leveraged offshore software development talent in his last two SaaS companies to staff up quickly and grow efficiently.

His top developers and designers were offshore in the Philippines, but they weren't one-off contractors or difficult-to-manage outsourced agencies. He found an endless supply of top tech talent who became savvy members of his team, working hard every day to get things done fast.

So, for his fourth venture, Matt created Full Scale, one of the fastest-growing software development companies in any region. Full Scale vets, employs, and supports over 300 professional developers, designers, and testers in the Philippines who augment and extend your core dev team.

In this expert session with a Practical Founders Podcast sponsor, Matt shares what works and doesn't work for practical SaaS founders who want to offshore some or all of their software development.

Links

• Matt Watson on LinkedIn
• Full Scale on LinkedIn
• Full Scale website
• Startup Hustle podcast
• Product Driven video channel

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Eric Dill was a successful mortgage broker in Sydney, Australia, who struggled with the same painful problem as every other broker: manually checking with multiple banks to validate and price mortgages for homeowners. Eric and his good friend Angus Keatinge resolved to create a software product to solve this complicated and chronic problem.

Quickli was launched in late 2021 and it immediately gained happy customers and fans without any proactive marketing or sales. Three years later, more than 10,000 mortgage brokers use Quickli every week—that's over 50% market share. Quickli has AUD $5 million in ARR with 40 employees.

This is an amazing story of two product-focused entrepreneurs who solved a difficult problem and grew a successful software company without any outside funding. Quickli still has almost no marketing staff and no salespeople. Most of their employees are engineers working on the product and customer service.

Quote from Eric Dill, cofounder and co-CEO of Quickli

"We just cracked the $5 million ARR figure in just three years, which is a big milestone for us. We have 10,000 brokers on the platform, which is over 50% of the total market in Australia. We also have 40 employees, mostly in engineering.

"It's been very, very much a story of product-led growth. Our product completely solves the biggest problem that every broker has every day. No other product has solved it. Brokers have been telling each other about Quickli, and we have some really big fans. It's a very tight community of brokers who help each other.

'How lucky did we get? Because we didn't do anything. Almost marketing and no sales. We have a website. To say we have half a marketing person feels like an overstatement because we have a customer service person who also does some marketing on the side for us."

Links

• Angus Keatinge on LinkedIn
• Eric Dill on LinkedIn
• Quickli on Linkedin
• Quickli website

Podcast Sponsor – Cypress Growth Capital

This week's podcast is sponsored by my friends at Cypress Growth Capital. For 15 years, Cypress has provided non-dilutive growth funding to bootstrapped SaaS founders, including many successful founders I've interviewed here on this podcast.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Guy Rubin is the co-founder and CEO of ebsta, a revenue intelligence platform that works with Salesforce and Hubspot to automatically analyze existing data to improve sales performance. Started in London in 2012, ebsta found success in the early days of the Salesforce marketplace and addon economy as a data tool integrated with customer emails.

ebsta has since become a complete revenue intelligence platform, serving sales teams with 10-100 sales reps. With 400 customers, 30 employees, and no VC funding, ebsta competes with a focused approach to play in the massive Salesforce ecosystem and against huge competitors.

Guy talks about their many pivots, running the business with his wife as cofounder, and the benefits and challenges of not being in San Francisco with VC funding. With deep data across thousands of sales reps, ebsta publishes an annual ebsta Sales Benchmark Report with specific data about close rates, quota attainment, and data-driven factors to improve sales performance.

Podcast Sponsor – Full Scale

This week's podcast is sponsored by Full Scale, one of the fastest-growing software development companies in any region. Full Scale vets, employs, and supports over 300 professional developers, designers, and testers in the Philippines who can augment and extend your core dev team. Learn more at fullscale.io.

Quote from Guy Rubin, CEO of ebsta

"We found ourselves in a place where we had some amazingly talented, very driven, very focused doers, and they were happy to work together as a common goal and get stuff done.

"What moved the bar for me as the CEO was bringing on board advisors. I've now got four board advisors and a chairman sitting around me. We also brought on a CTO, CPO, and CFO, who are very experienced.

"So bring in those experts around you, people independent of those doing the doing. Don't get me wrong; you need the doers. They're absolutely vital, but I also needed experts to help me at the running stage.

"That was the best thing I ever did: bringing those expert advisors in. And if you're small, I would encourage founders to ask different people to be advisors to give you an outside perspective. You'd be surprised if people love being asked for help and ask you some difficult questions."

Links

• Guy Rubin on LinkedIn
• ebsta on LinkedIn
• ebsta website
• 2024 ebsta SaaS Sales Benchmarks Report

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Stuart Draper founded Stukent, an innovative ed-tech company that provides simulated internships for business students. Stukent started by focusing on high-quality digital marketing education for colleges and universities using up-to-date digital textbooks and content. They then added a simulation system for students to practice their digital marketing skills.

Stukent grew steadily with less than $1M in outside funding, which helped them bridge the long and seasonal buying cycles of big schools. The team grew to over 100 employees and nearly $10 million in revenue serving marketing professors and their students.

In 2021, they engaged with Vista Point Advisors, an M&A advisor firm, to shop the company to prospective buyers and investors, eventually getting a majority investment from Tritium Partners. Stuart describes the M&A process, what worked well, and how he transitioned out of the company after two years of continued growth.

Podcast Sponsor – Cypress Growth Capital

This week's podcast is sponsored by my friends at Cypress Growth Capital. For 15 years, Cypress has provided non-dilutive growth funding to bootstrapped SaaS founders, including many successful founders I've interviewed here on this podcast.

Quote from Stuart Draper, founder of Stukent

"When we officially sold a major part of our company to investors, we had a brief celebration. My CFO and I called each other and screamed as loud as we could on the phone in a fun moment. We got there, we did this. My family also took a big trip and I got a break.

"But then it was back to work. I was still the CEO and I still run this thing and I've got new investors that also need returns. I'm going to go deliver for these guys. They gave me a big payday, so I'm going to make sure they have a win too.

"After the second board meeting with our investors, I realized this is way harder than I thought. After eight board meetings and doubling the business again, I wasn't enjoying this as much anymore. The board meetings were hard for me. Prepping for them was super stressful.

"So we found a new CEO for Stukent, and he's doing great. Now I get to sit back in my chair at the board meeting, listen in, share my advice and opinions and come back in three months."

Links

• Stuart Draper on LinkedIn
• Stukent on LinkedIn
• Stukent website
• Tritium Partners website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

John Stewart created and sold an engineering services business, then grew a Salesforce integration services company before building some early software products. One of their software experiments allowed Salesforce customers to see and interact with their customer data on a map. When customers paid for it and revenue grew, he and his co-founder wound down services and focused on their mapping product.

MapAnything grew quickly to over $2M ARR as a bootstrapped software company, with some revenue-based financing from Lighter Capital to help test their growth plans. When they focused on field service route optimization and grew quickly, MapAnything raised several rounds of venture capital to grow even faster by focusing its sales and marketing efforts within the Salesforce ecosystem.

MapAnything reached $22 million in ARR before Salesforce acquired the company for $250 million. John stayed on with Salesforce for six months before moving on. John and a co-founder launched Fastbreak.ai three years later, a sports schedule optimization platform for professional and amateur sports leagues.

Quote from John Stewart, former CEO of MapAnything

"I tell founders most often that you really need to focus on sales and distribution. As a CEO of a startup in the tech space or SaaS, the only thing that really matters is revenue growth. Technology is technology. Even if you have unique IP right now, it won't be unique soon enough.

"So you need to figure out your go-to-market motion. That's the single most important thing. Revenue cures all ills. It doesn't matter what's going on in the company as long as revenue is growing. It's all about revenue growth more than anything."

Links

• John Stewart on LinkedIn
• MapAnything on LinkedIn
• Salesforce website
• Fastbreak.ai website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Landon Taylor created two successful digital marketing services businesses before starting a product-powered business with recurring revenues. His first agency drove traffic to its customers, which led to his second business, Best Company, which produced qualified leads for large home services businesses through its bestcompany.com consumer review site.

Their work in consumer reviews led them to his latest business, Snoball, a word-of-mouth marketing platform they use to predictably and efficiently drive customer referrals. With their systematic approach and some human-in-the-loop help, Snoball creates a scalable customer acquisition channel for large home services businesses in the US.

Landon speaks openly about his approach to "parlay" one business into another to create new businesses that are larger and more valuable than the last. Rather than raising big VC funding, Landon invests his own resources to find and create new businesses.

Quote from Landon Taylor, CEO of Snoball

"Fear can be debilitating for an entrepreneur. If you fear failure, if you take a leap and you're gonna fail, you'll be paralyzed. You won't be able to move forward, see opportunities, and take risks that will open up doors.

"You've gotta get to the mindset that failure is not fatal. Everybody who's been successful has failed multiple times, right? So just take the leap. It can be a small leap. Or it could be a mental leap of believing that I can build, I can create, I've got something unique.

"It might be as simple as wanting to do a LinkedIn post, but you hit this wall of 'I can't.' So get beyond that to believe I can, I've got something unique, I can build, I can create."

Links

• Landon Taylor on LinkedIn
• Snoball on LinkedIn
• Snoball website
• BestCompany.com website

Sponsor

This week's podcast is sponsored by my friends at Cypress Growth Capital. For 15 years, Cypress has provided non-dilutive growth funding to bootstrapped SaaS founders, including many successful founders I've interviewed here on this podcast.

Connect with Cliff Sentell at cypressgrowthcapital.com/practical to find out how they can help with your practical growth plans.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Kyle York was the Chief Revenue Officer of Dyn, a bootstrapped cloud infrastructure that he helped grow and sell to Oracle for over $600 million. He then led product strategy and acquisitions in Oracle's cloud infrastructure group before going out on his own to invest in SaaS startups and help them grow.

York IE is both an advisory firm with tech-enabled services to help early-stage B2B SaaS companies grow and an investment firm that has invested in over 60 practical SaaS companies.

In this expert session, Kyle discusses why his efficient funding approach appeals to practical SaaS founders and why it is different than traditional VC funding. We discuss the current environment for funding, growth, and exits for practical founders. We also dive into what's working and not working in 2024 to drive growth in capital-efficient SaaS businesses.

Quote from Kyle York, Founder of York IE

"It's gonna sound so simple, but founders need to set the long-term vision of what they want to be and what they want to build. Then make sure that every decision you make backward to today is working towards fulfilling that vision.

"What I see too often is companies pigeonholing themselves down a certain trajectory or path that isn't even aligned exactly with what they wanted. This can create problems when you're raising money from outside investors if what investors want is not the same as your vision and timeline

Links

• Kyle York on LinkedIn
• York IE on LinkedIn
• York IE website

Sponsor

This week's podcast is sponsored by my friends at Cypress Growth Capital. For 15 years, Cypress has provided non-dilutive growth funding to bootstrapped SaaS founders, including many successful founders I've interviewed here on this podcast.

Connect with Cliff Sentell at cypressgrowthcapital.com/practical to find out how they can help with your practical growth plans.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Mike Kovarik is the founder and former CEO of Attribytes, a software company he started, grew, and successfully sold in just over five years. Mike was a data analytics leader at large food distributors, where he discovered a chronic challenge with low-quality product data in their massive e-commerce systems. He quit his job, built a product with a friend, and his former employer became his first customer.

Attribytes grew steadily in the next few years, serving food distributors and retailers in the US, with Mike making the first sales and slowly adding new employees. He invested his savings in the company and raised just over $2 million from a strategic and several angel investors in Phoenix, Arizona. They grew to nearly $5 million in ARR in 2019 with just over 20 employees.

In 2020, Mike sold the company to Syndigo, a larger data management provider that served the same industry. He joined Syndigo for over a year to lead the acquisition of other data management companies to expand their product offerings. When their acquisition strategy changed in 2022, Mike left to take a break and then acquire and retool another vertical software company called ShopControlller.

Quote from Mike Kovarik, founder of Attribytes

"I built a little spreadsheet and I put in what our revenue was, what our current valuation was, and then what that exit would look like after taxes for me, just to see what that dollar amount was. We were at almost $5M ARR, and we were getting interest from acquirers, so it was already interesting.

"I created another spreadsheet to show what would happen if we raised big VC funding and invested that lover for 5-10 years to grow. What rate of return would I get? How would we be diluted? What annual recurring revenue would we need to get to, and what valuation would that be? What would my dollar amount be?

"The reality is that the amount for me would be pretty close to the same if we sold now or raised a big VC round. And I'm not trying to risk everything to potentially buy a plane. I could have a big exit now and have a lake house and a place in Flagstaff, and my kids' kids will be good. What else do I need?"

Links

• Mike Kovarik on LinkedIn
• Attribytes on LinkedIn
• Syndigo website
• ShopController website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Brothers David and Chris Sinkinson attended Queen's University in Ontario, Canada, when David learned of the problems maintaining the blue emergency phones on campus. He proposed a location-aware mobile safety app, so Chris built it himself, and it worked great.

AppArmor grew steadily to become the most popular university mobile safety platform in Canada and the US, and over 250 universities use it.

With no outside investors, they bootstrapped the company to $6 million ARR with serious profits before selling the company to Rave Mobile Security for $40 million. They stayed on for another year in transition before writing a book and running a podcast called Startup Different.

Quote from Dave Sinkinson, CEO and co-founder of AppArmor

"The biggest advice I give new founders is to 'ignore that startup noise.' Throughout our experience, we had lots of people who I loosely referred to as haters. People who said we're "just a lifestyle business" or our idea is never going to work. One person literally told my cofounder brother Chris that we weren't even a startup.

"Just ignore those people. Don't pursue validation from your peers. Instead, pursue validation in the market. A couple of years into the business, that realization was a big change that helped me stay on track. So, my advice for SaaS founders is to ignore the haters and enjoy the journey."

Links

• David Sinkinson on LinkedIn
• Chris Sinkinson on LinkedIn
• AppArmor on LinkedIn
• AppArmor website
• Rave Mobile Security website
• Startup Different podcast and book

Sponsor

This week's podcast is sponsored by Full Scale, one of the fastest-growing software development companies in any region.

Full Scale vets, employs, and supports over 300 professional developers, designers, and testers in the Philippines, who can augment and extend your core dev team. Learn more at fullscale.io.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Dan Balcauski is the founder and principal consultant of Product Tranquility, a SaaS pricing consultancy. Dan shares the core building blocks of SaaS pricing, including customer segments, value, competition, and positioning strategy. Dan also describes the common mistakes in pricing and the importance of having structured pricing conversations with customers.

In this expert interview, Dan shares his perspectives on key SaaS pricing challenges:

• Why CEOs need to be involved in pricing decisions as pricing and packaging affect everyone in the organization.
• How understanding customer segments, value drivers, competitive alternatives, and differentiation are key building blocks of SaaS pricing.
• Why choosing the right pricing metric and offer configurations can help target multiple customer segments.
• Why having pricing conversations with customers can provide valuable insights into their perception of value and willingness to pay.
• How pricing plays a role in positioning and branding.
• How AI is impacting pricing strategies in the SaaS industry.

Quote from Dan Balcauski, Principal at Product Tranquility

"One of the healthiest ways to think about pricing is that price is a thing, but pricing is a process. Like any other process in your company, it probably will have a process owner and some sort of document to describe it.

"Your first pricing iteration is probably not going to be your best iteration. You'll keep improving it. You don't prevent your team from answering customer support tickets until you have the perfect customer support process. It's the same with your pricing.

"You're going to make mistakes. Those mistakes will be way less fatal than you imagine they will be in your head. But as long as you're committed to improving that process over time, you're going to start moving in the right direction."

Links

• Dan Balcauski on LinkedIn
• Product Tranquility website
• SaaS Scaling Secrets podcast

Sponsor

This week's podcast is sponsored by Cypress Growth Capital. For 15 years, Cypress has provided non-dilutive growth funding to bootstrapped SaaS founders, including many successful founders I've interviewed here on this podcast.

Learn more and connect with Cliff Sentell at cypressgrowthcapital.com/practical to have a conversation about your growth plans.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.