Progressively Incorrect

The “Thinking Out Loud” episodes on Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works are a running set of conversations to make sense of instruction, coaching, and implementation as they actually function in schools—not as we wish they did. The premise is straightforward: Gene Tavernetti and I take a concrete problem of practice, name what tends to go wrong, and work toward clearer thinking and more usable actions for teachers, coaches, and leaders.

Take a look at the list of episodes we’ve done so far. My hope is these summaries give you an efficient way to decide which episodes to start with—and to surface the recurring themes that have clarified our work in instructional coaching. Enjoy!

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This is the kickoff. We start by thinking out loud about Direct Instruction (DI), explicit teaching, and what gets lost when people treat “explicit instruction” like a buzzword instead of a craft. It’s a wide-ranging, foundational conversation that sets the tone for the whole series: precise language, fast-paced teaching, and coaching that supports real performance—not just good intentions. 

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We dig into rehearsal as a missing “bridge” between professional development and actual classroom change. If teachers only talk about strategies (or just watch someone else do them), transfer is shaky. Rehearsal—paired with feedback—helps convert ideas into actions teachers can reliably pull off with students. 

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This episode is all about tradeoffs: full-time coaches vs. hybrid models, centralized vs. distributed support, and why “best model” depends on context (time, staffing, trust, leadership clarity). The through-line is practicality—how to choose a structure that supports teachers without turning coaching into another layer of friction. 

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We zoom in on what coaches actually do during observations. Observation isn’t passive—what you attend to, how you collect evidence, and how you frame what you saw all shape whether the debrief becomes helpful (or demoralizing). It’s a nuts-and-bolts episode about noticing, interpreting, and choosing next steps with care. 

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We take on a classic staffing dilemma: pulling great teachers out of classrooms can hurt students—but schools also need credible, skilled coaches. We talk through the opportunity costs, why great teaching doesn’t automatically equal great coaching, and how to think about pathways that strengthen coaching without draining classrooms of their strongest practitioners. 

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This episode defines what coaching cycles are for and when they’re worth doing. We talk about the purpose (not just the steps), how long cycles should last, and when cycles become bureaucracy. The emphasis is on making cycles serve teacher growth—rather than turning them into a compliance routine. 

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Here I reflect on what consulting teaches you about implementation and change: what leaders think they want vs. what will actually move practice, why “big splash” training often fades, and why alignment and follow-through matter more than inspiration. It’s a practical conversation for anyone trying to move a system—not just an individual teacher. 

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This one is about starting well: how you begin supporting teachers in a way that’s credible, helpful, and sustainable. We talk through what it means to enter support work with clarity and humility, and how to structure early moves so teachers feel helped (not judged) and the work can actually stick. 

Mike Schmoker is one of the most influential voices in school improvement, urging schools to recommit to the fundamentals: coherent curriculum, strong lesson design, and authentic literacy—reading, discussion, and writing—throughout the school day. Across books like Focus and Results Now 2.0, and decades of essays and commentary, his through-line is the same: schools don’t usually need more initiatives—they need fewer priorities, executed with far greater clarity and consistency. 

This summer, join me in New York City for The Explicit Teaching Institute—a five-day deep dive into the science of learning and the highest-leverage moves in explicit instruction. We’ll spend our mornings unpacking the research, our middays studying expert teaching on video (courtesy of Steplab!), and our afternoons rehearsing the moves that make instruction clear, efficient, and reliable—so you leave with a practical toolkit you can use on day one. 

NYC | July 27–31, 2026

Learn more + register here: Explicit Teaching Institute registration 

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Mike Schmoker is the author of Focus, Results Now 2.0, and other widely read books on school improvement, and he’s published extensively in outlets including ASCD and Education Week (and beyond). His work consistently presses schools to simplify: prioritize the practices with the strongest payoff, and eliminate the “initiative clutter” that dilutes time, attention, and instructional quality. 

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The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today!

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Brian Poncy to explore a claim you’ve probably heard in schools: “Teaching math facts interferes with understanding.” From there, we dig into better ways to think about math facts, what schools can do differently, and the practical decisions that show up when schools decide to take facts seriously.

Exciting news!

Steplab and I are bringing this work to life in person. We’ll be leading a coaching-focused professional development day in New York City on Saturday, January 17, 2026 (8:30 AM–3:30 PM) at FLACS Middle School.

We’ll dig into the practical mechanics of coaching, rehearsal, and culture-building—no fluff, no theory without application. If this episode resonates with you, you’ll want to be in the room.

Learn more and register here: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/steplab1/1878932

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Dr. Brian Poncy is a professor and program director in school psychology, with a focus on academic intervention and learning principles—especially in mathematics and computation. Check out Facts on Fire here.

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today!

In this episode, I sit down with Alex Gingell to unpack what it actually takes to make instructional coaching work in a school. Alex explains why his first priority wasn’t improving teaching, but stabilizing behavior, curriculum, and trust—and why coaching can only succeed once those foundations are secure. We talk through how he used Steplab to build coaching expertise, removed high-stakes observations to create psychological safety, and modeled vulnerability by being coached himself.

Exciting news!

Alex and I are bringing this work to life in person. We’ll be leading a coaching-focused professional development day in New York City on Saturday, January 17, 2026 (8:30 AM–3:30 PM) at FLACS Middle School.

We’ll dig into the practical mechanics of coaching, rehearsal, and culture-building—no fluff, no theory without application. If this episode resonates with you, you’ll want to be in the room.

Learn more and register here: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/steplab1/1878932

The conversation then turns to the knowing–doing gap and the breakthrough that came from regular, low-stakes rehearsal. Alex shares how short, consistent rehearsal routines replaced traditional staff briefings—helping teachers turn insight into classroom habit. We close with reflections on the structural changes that made coaching viable—protecting time, redesigning meetings, narrowing focus—and what Alex would do differently if he were starting again.

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The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today!

In this episode of the Direct Instruction podcast, I’m joined by Laura Doherty, President and CEO of the Baltimore Curriculum Project (BCP)—Maryland’s largest operator of neighborhood, PK–8 public charter schools, and one of the longest-running Direct Instruction networks in the United States. 

For nearly three decades, BCP has been quietly doing something that many systems only talk about: implementing Direct Instruction with real fidelity, at scale, in high-poverty neighborhood schools—while building a warm, community-centered culture around it. Laura shares how BCP first adopted Direct Instruction in the mid-1990s, what convinced them to stick with it, and how their commitment to carefully engineered instruction has deepened over time rather than fading as “just another initiative.” 

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We dig into what a Direct Instruction lesson actually feels like inside a BCP classroom: the brisk pacing, explicit scripts, and choral responses—but also the joy, safety, and sense of momentum that students experience when every task has been designed with their prior knowledge in mind. Laura talks about how students respond to the structure of DI, and why many of them end up experiencing it as empowering rather than restrictive—especially when they start to realize just how quickly they’re moving through reading and math content. 

From the teacher side, Laura explains what it takes to build and support a DI teaching force: intensive initial training, ongoing coaching, and the kind of data culture where teachers are never left alone to guess what’s working. We talk about what it feels like to teach in a DI environment at BCP, how new teachers are brought on board, and how the network sustains high expectations without burning people out. 

Zooming out, Laura paints a picture of BCP’s wider school culture—community schools that serve as neighborhood hubs, with restorative practices, strong relationships, and a deliberate focus on making classrooms feel safe, predictable, and academically ambitious all at once. She describes how families, community partners, and staff all fit into that picture, and what it means to run charter schools that are explicitly rooted in the local neighborhoods they serve. 

Finally, we talk about recognition and the future. In 2025, BCP was honored with the inaugural Silver Star School Award from the National Institute for Direct Instruction—an acknowledgment of their long-term, high-fidelity implementation of DI across their network. Laura reflects on what that award means to her team, why it feels like a validation of decades of steady work, and how it shapes her vision for the next chapter of BCP’s story: more schools, stronger community partnerships, and an even deeper commitment to getting every child in Baltimore the kind of instruction they deserve. 

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today and join me in NYC for the latest instructional coaching intensive!

In this episode of Progressively Incorrect, I’m joined by Marty Siegel, Professor Emeritus of Informatics and Instructional Systems Technology, and a pioneer whose career bridges early Direct Instruction, large-scale computer-based learning, human–computer interaction, and the emerging world of AI-driven instruction.

Marty began his career at the University of Illinois in the 1960s, right at the crossroads of two historic efforts: Sidney Bijou’s work in child behavioral psychology and the Bereiter–Engelmann Preschool, the foundational Direct Instruction project that demonstrated just how much young children could learn through carefully engineered teaching. Marty reflects on what it was like to experience that environment firsthand, and how it shaped his enduring belief that instruction can—and should—be designed with precision, clarity, and concern for what the learner already knows.

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A few years later came a completely different chapter: PLATO—the world’s first wide-scale computer-based learning ecosystem, and one of the boldest educational technology experiments of the 20th century. Marty discusses what it was like to enter this world of early networked computing and help shape instructional design at a time when almost no one had seen a computer used for teaching. He explains how PLATO’s capabilities, constraints, and design culture transformed his understanding of what technology could make possible for learners.

Marty shares how Direct Instruction, PLATO, and human–computer interaction all converge when you view learning as a systems-design problem—one that blends behavioral precision, cognitive insights, and technological innovation. Looking ahead, he explains why AI may finally enable the individualized, feedback-rich, responsive instruction that both Direct Instruction and PLATO envisioned decades ago.

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today and join me in NYC for the latest instructional coaching intensive!

In this episode of Progressively Incorrect, I’m re-joined by Doug Lemov—author of Teach Like a Champion and The Coach’s Guide to Teaching, and one of the most influential figures in the history of education.

Doug has spent decades studying what the best teachers do differently—turning the art and science of teaching into something that can be named, practiced, and mastered. His work has helped thousands of educators bring more clarity, joy, and rigor to their classrooms.

We talk about Teach Like a Champion—why great teaching is not magic, but the result of deliberate attention to detail, constant rehearsal, and a belief that every student can meet a high standard when instruction is precise and humane.

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From there, Doug unpacks the “What to Do” Cycle—how clear directions, positive framing, and follow-through can transform classroom culture. He explains why effective teaching isn’t so much about charisma, but about techniques and systems that make success predictable for students and teachers alike.

Then we dive into Active Observation – an important reminder that began with a conversation I had with his colleague, Denarius Frazier, discussing how great teachers use tools and protocols to free their working memory, notice what matters most, and respond to student performance in real time. Doug shares insights from about how cognitive load and working memory shape the classroom moment-by-moment.

Finally, we explore the Teach like a Champion guide to the Science of Reading —how older students need the same kind of structured, language-rich instruction we give to younger readers, and how great techniques and evidence that began with early reading fit within whole book teaching.

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today and join me in NYC for the latest instructional coaching intensive!

In this episode of Progressively Incorrect, I’m joined by Denarius Frazier—Regional Superintendent of Instruction at Uncommon Schools, co-author of Reconnect: Building School Culture for Meaning, Purpose, and Belonging, and perhaps the best teacher ever captured on film.

Denarius is one of the most thoughtful and influential voices in the Teach Like a Champion community, known for his calm authority, precision, and deep commitment to ensuring every student experiences both belonging and excellence.

We talk about what’s underneath the iceberg of great teaching—what actually goes into building the kind of classrooms where students track the speaker, support one another, and master challenging material with joy and confidence.

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From there, Denarius shares what he most wants teachers to notice when watching his classroom videos—how modeling, clarity, and preparation make expert teaching look effortless.

We also discuss the daily teacher moves that make all the difference, and what habits and lenses help schools scale great teaching across classrooms.

Denarius reflects on his journey from math teacher to principal to regional leader, and how his classroom instincts continue to shape his leadership today.

Finally, we explore how he weaves belonging and rigor together—showing that high expectations and strong relationships aren’t opposites, but partners in helping students thrive.

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today and join me in NYC for the latest instructional coaching intensive!

In this podcast episode, I’m joined by Jessica Colleu Terradas and Jon Owen, two international leaders bringing Engelmann’s Direct Instruction to life in Australia and the UK. This marks a milestone in the Direct Instruction Podcast—our first global double feature exploring what high-fidelity DI looks like beyond the United States.

Jessica, based in Australia, supports system-level implementation of DI, with a focus on literacy instruction. She discusses how schools where teaching precision and fidelity drive student outcomes.

Jon, joining from the UK, leads Corrective Mathematics groups and works on expanding DI-based numeracy intervention to students who have been consistently underserved by traditional maths instruction. He shares lessons learned from introducing DI into UK schools.

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Throughout the episode, a clear theme emerges: Direct Instruction travels well when fidelity travels with it. Whether in Oregon, Canberra, or across the pond —precision programming, carefully engineered examples, and swift correction procedures remain the engine of student success.

Book a demo of Steplab today and join me in NYC for the latest instructional coaching intensive!

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

In this episode of Progressively Incorrect, I’m joined by Anna Stokke—mathematician, professor, and host of the Chalk & Talk podcast. Anna has become one of the most influential voices calling for a return to clarity, structure, and evidence in math instruction.

We explore how her conversations on chalk & talk have shaped—and sometimes challenged—her own thinking about teaching math. Anna shares which guests have most shifted her perspective, and whether she’s ever wished she’d pushed back harder during a particularly lively exchange.

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From there, we dig into some of the enduring debates in math education:

Anna also lays out what she believes every student should leave school knowing—regardless of whether they go on to study calculus or carpentry—and how math and education departments can work together more productively to achieve that goal.

Throughout the conversation, Anna’s message is consistent and clear: mathematical understanding begins with a solid foundation—and when instruction is explicit, coherent, and inclusive, every student can succeed in math.

The podcast you’re listening to is sponsored by John Catt from Hachette Learning and hosted by Dr. Zach Groshell. John Catt publishes some of the best books in education, including my book, Just Tell Them: The Power of Explanations and Explicit Teaching.

Book a demo of Steplab today and check out our Ambassador’s Program to get trained up by me and members of the Steplab team!