In this episode, Joe speaks with Paul F. Austin: Founder & CEO of Third Wave, Founder of Psychedelic Coaching Institute, and host of Third Wave's The Psychedelic Podcast.

Recorded in-person at this year's reMind conference, this episode – a shared release with Third Wave – is a rare glimpse into the inner workings of both Psychedelics Today and Third Wave, with Joe and Paul reconnecting after early podcast appearances and interviewing each other about where they've come from and where they're going now that they're so many years into this. Paul breaks down Third Wave's history and new coaching training program, and Joe discusses Vital: Why he invested in Vital over an investment raise, what we've learned from the first two cohorts, how we've handled scholarships, and why sometimes losing money can be worth it if it's for the greater good.

They talk about the challenge of keeping the lights on while trying to create something new; the balance of running a media company while building out an educational platform; the importance of staying focused and ignoring the noise; the relationship-building they've seen from their students; why we need to welcome the corporate types we may be inclined to dismiss; and why seeding good actors in as many roles and communities as possible is vital to the growth of psychedelics. Click here to head to the show notes page.