In this episode, Joe interviews Kat Murti: executive director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest nationwide network of students fighting to replace the War on Drugs with policies rooted in evidence, compassion, and human rights.

She talks about how she became interested in drug policy, which not surprisingly aligns with the many problems of The War on Drugs: how it's a war on people, personal liberty, and our communities; how laws are not effective in enforcing morality; and how getting in trouble with the law often incentivizes more illegal activity. We all know that our current system doesn't work and that the drug war no longer appeals to most reasonable people, but how can we move towards sensible policy? She discusses previous successes (both at SSDP and before), and some of their current projects, from the work they're doing with fentanyl strip training and distribution, to education work at festivals and their program, "Just Say Know."

She talks about:

• How drug policy isn't going to look the same everywhere and shouldn't: How do we effectively use different models in different places together for the benefit of everyone?
• The dangers of forcing drug users through drug courts and treatment centers
• The repealing of Oregon's Measure 110 and how it's unfair to blame its failure on problems that already existed in the state
• Their new focus on how the War on Drugs specifically affects women and reproductive rights, inspired by Louisiana recently scheduling Mifepristone and Misoprostol

and much more.

The SSDP's biggest battle now is fighting the DEA's attempted scheduling of DOI and DOC, two compounds that have been used in research for decades and pose no real threat to safety – which would drastically derail a ton of research. They just completed a 10-day hearing with the DEA. Watch Joe and Hamilton Morris' breakdown here, and stay tuned to SSDP and PT for updates.

For links, head to the show notes page.