Why the modern megachurch model is failing—and what should rise in its place. Mike Erre and Tim Stafford tackle one of their most candid, raw conversations yet around the toxicity of platform-centric Christianity, the pitfalls of megachurch culture, and the tension between organizational leadership and spiritual shepherding. Drawing from personal experience, listener questions, and real-world examples, they explore the deep systemic issues that plague celebrity-driven church models, while proposing a more biblical and communal way forward.

They also introduce Malaika Sisay, a third-year student at The Ohio State University, whose powerful story of growing up at the intersection of a Muslim household, a white evangelical school, and a Black Pentecostal church sheds new light on how we must reimagine diversity and inclusion in Christian spaces.

Key Takeaways: • The Megachurch Crisis – Why celebrity pastors, organizational culture, and brand obsession are hurting the church's mission and credibility. • Leadership vs. Shepherding – The danger of confusing business success metrics with spiritual leadership and care. • Platform as Poison – Why platform-centered ministry easily breeds narcissism, exclusion, and spiritual burnout. • Embracing Multiplicity – The biblical imperative to elevate and empower other voices and avoid single-leader charisma traps. • Honest Reflections – Mike and Tim share their own experiences with being both the threatened and the threat within large church structures, and how their views have evolved. • The Power of Presence, Not Performance – Encouraging a return to worship that's Spirit-led rather than emotionally manipulative or production-driven.

Guest Highlight: Malaika Sisay – A student from OSU with a deeply impactful story of navigating cultural, religious, and racial dynamics as the daughter of Muslim immigrants. Malaika reflects on growing up attending a conservative white Christian school, a West African Pentecostal church, and a mosque—sharing powerful lessons on identity, belonging, and the diverse witness of Jesus.

Resources Mentioned: • 1 Corinthians – Paul's rebuke of personality cults in the early church. • Alan Hirsch – Missional church advocate who challenges attractional models of ministry. • Dallas Willard – Teachings on joyful non-compliance and spiritual disciplines. • Tony Campolo – Stories of obedience and finding God in simple faithfulness. • Podcast with Malaika Sisay – Follow her on Instagram @malaikasesay

Explore with us how we can rediscover the church's truest calling—equipping people to be Jesus in the world, not just attend a show.

Let us know your thoughts and continue the dialogue! Email us at [email protected] and join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music by Timothy John Stafford – Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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