Basecamp CEO Jason Fried talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work, which he co-wrote with his business partner David Heinemeier Hansson.

In this episode: How Basecamp got started; why chat apps like Slack and Basecamp's own Campfire are bad for productivity; the things that make work crazy, including access to coworkers' calendars, ASAP-response culture and codependent departments; why Basecamp does not set any goals internally other than "be profitable"; how Silicon Valley's "world domination mindset" stresses workers out; which tech exec would win in a fight?; the fakeness of fancy office perks; the problems with serial entrepreneurship, best practices and intentional sleep deprivation; "hacking anything is stupid"; why venture capital destroys more businesses than it helps; and how tech companies are trying to avoid becoming Philip Morris.

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