Responsibly Different™

In this episode, Chris sits down with Dr. Ram Singh, CEO & Founder of EtaKor, to unpack what happens when we start trusting the numbers more than the people behind them. They explore why familiar metrics like ROAS can create false confidence, what gets lost when models treat human behavior as predictable, and why the most important signals are often the ones we dismiss as noise.

The conversation moves beyond measurement itself into a bigger question about judgment. As AI gets better at finding patterns, what still requires a human to challenge the answer, add context and recognize when the data is telling only part of the story?

Ram also shares why he believes measurement should be a vehicle, not the destination, and why uncertainty, critique and empathy may be some of the most important tools marketers have left.

Learn more about EtaKor at etakor.ai.

The special humans making this possible

Dr. Ram Singh, Guest
Chris Marine, Host
Pip Kolmar, Producer
Caili Elwell (Just a Girl Productions), Producer
Cover Art Illustrated by Naretiv
Song, “Under The Night Sky” by Kevin Matley

The Responsibly Different™ Podcast is inspired by the original producer/host Benn Marine of The Rising Kind.

And to David Gogel, Kelly Gadsby, Aidan Clark, Shea Hendricks, and the entire team at Campfire, along with the clients who trust us with their work, thank you. Your partnership makes it possible for us to tell stories like these, and to help tell yours too.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

Thomas Kennon is a professor at New York University, longtime strategist, and author with his latest book The Bigger Leap: An Ethics of NextCapitalism. He has spent decades studying audiences, strategy, and what makes people actually do what they do.

But the deeper his work went, the bigger the question became.

What if the problem in business isn’t that we lack insight, but that we keep using better insight to optimize for the same old outcomes?

In this conversation, Thom and Chris explore the ethics behind how businesses understand and influence people. They move through the difference between growth and thriving, fairness and kindness, community and extraction, and trust and fear. They talk about whether love belongs in business, why sophisticated research still requires human interpretation, and what happens as AI becomes increasingly capable of finding patterns in human behavior.

The question running underneath it all is simple, even if the answer isn’t.

If we understand people better than ever, what responsibility comes with that understanding?

And when the models get smarter, what still belongs to us?

The special humans making this possible

Chris Marine, Host 
Thomas Kennon, Guest  
Pip Kolmar, Producer
Caili Elwell (Just a Girl Productions), Producer 
Cover Art Illustrated by Naretiv
Song, “Under The Night Sky” by Kevin Matley

The Responsibly Different™ Podcast was inspired by the original producer/host Benn Marine of The Rising Kind.

And to David Gogel, Kelly Gadsby, Aidan Clark, Shea Hendricks, and the entire team at Campfire, along with the clients who trust us with their work, thank you. Your partnership makes it possible for us to tell stories like these, and to help tell yours too.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

When CBS canceled The Late Show with Stephen Colbert - the #1, Emmy-winning show in late night - they called it "purely a financial decision." Chris Marine isn't so sure. In this special Fireside episode, the Campfire founder and CEO traces the story most coverage skips: how your attention becomes advertising dollars, how those dollars decide what gets made and what gets killed, and why the cancellation of one late-night show is really a signal about media consolidation, press freedom, and power.

Drawing on his time in a newsroom, on the buy side, and on the sell side of media, Chris connects the dots between the $16M Paramount settlement, the Skydance merger, the Jimmy Kimmel boycott, the rise of retail-media giants like Amazon and Walmart, and the research on what happens to communities when journalism disappears. It's part tribute, part wake-up call, and an honest look at the power you hold every time you choose where to point your eyes.

This one's personal. Pull up a seat by the fire.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

What actually sticks the morning after the biggest media night of the year? We gathered the Campfire team to break down Super Bowl 60 through a marketer’s lens. The ads, the halftime energy, and the strange alchemy that turns a 30-second spot into a real cultural moment.

Instead of tallying celebrity cameos, we dig into why some ideas pulled people off the couch and into the experience, while others faded the second the game came back on. From Coinbase’s polarizing karaoke moment that engineered participation, to the growing use of AI, de-aging, and digital resurrection that left many viewers uneasy, we explore where innovation worked and where it missed the human mark.

We also spotlight ideas built for utility and momentum. Liquid I.V.’s bathroom blitz, Ring’s lost-dog rescue, and brands that extended beyond the broadcast with puzzles, takeovers, and lead-up campaigns that turned Sunday night attention into Monday conversation. The halftime show sparked its own debate, reminding us that when millions are watching with divided attention, clarity beats complexity.

The takeaway is simple. Whether you’re planning national or local, B2C or B2B, the brands that win are the ones that build for participation, design ideas that travel, and respect the medium they’re showing up in. Sometimes the message matters less than how people experience it together.

If you enjoyed the conversation, follow the show and share this episode with someone who loves marketing, media, sports, culture, or all of the above.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

In this episode of Fireside, Campfire Consulting’s Founder & CEO Chris Marine and Head of Strategy David Gogel sit down with Meranne Behrends and Luke Behrends, founders of Words From The Woods — a Portland, Maine creative agency known for bold ideas, human-centered storytelling, and work that resonates far beyond the algorithm.

Together, we explore why bold creative thinking still matters in a world obsessed with metrics, dashboards, and constant optimization. We dig into what happens when you return to the heart of storytelling, lead with curiosity instead of ego, and protect the human element that often gets lost when everything becomes a data point.

We also reflect on nearly eight years of growing alongside each other — from early shared clients to the trust, honesty, and no-nonsense collaboration that has shaped our work ever since. It’s the kind of advertising partnership that reminds you why this industry can be meaningful, and why the relationships behind the work matter just as much as the work itself.

If you’re interested in creative strategy, brand storytelling, media planning, or simply what it takes to build genuine partnerships in this industry, this conversation is one worth pulling up a chair for.

You can learn more about Words From The Woods and explore their work at: https://wftw.me

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

Discover the science of persuasive messaging with communications expert Anat Shenker-Osorio in this compelling archive episode from Benn Marine's former podcast, Ocean of Organizing. While the Campfire team dives into 2026 planning, this conversation from 2019 remains strikingly relevant for anyone crafting messages that move people to action.

Anat, whose research has appeared in The Atlantic, Boston Globe, and The Guardian, shares game-changing insights about how progressive campaigns can craft winning messages. She breaks down the fundamental flaws in typical progressive communication—what she calls the "Boy, have I got a problem for you?" approach—and offers a powerful alternative framework that starts with shared values rather than problems.

Beyond specific messaging tactics, this episode explores the deeper philosophy of movement building. Anat emphasizes that effective campaigns focus on what they're for rather than what they oppose, noting that "what we fight, we feed." She shares examples from successful campaigns around the world—from New Zealand's election of Jacinda Ardern to Minnesota's defeat of Islamophobia—showcasing how positive, values-based messaging transforms outcomes.

Whether you're planning a campaign, crafting organizational messaging, or simply curious about how language shapes our political landscape, this conversation offers invaluable tools for communicating with impact. Listen for practical frameworks you can immediately apply to your own work, and discover why creating hope through positive messaging remains essential even in challenging times.

ASO Communications – This is Anat’s website and where you can learn more about her and her research. If you want to go straight to her research you should follow this link. https://asocommunications.com/

Brave New Words Podcast – You can go behind the scenes on different political campaigns and efforts with Anat and listen in on how different tactics in messaging were used and their outcomes. You can also find this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. https://bravenewwordspod.com

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

Measurement and attribution beyond last click is still in its infancy, and it remains one of the most persistent challenges marketers face at every stage of growth. But we’re also at an exciting moment. Leaders like the one on today’s episode are connecting the dots in measurement and helping solve for real attribution.

In this conversation, Chris Marine sits down with Madan Bharadwaj of M² to explore why there’s no single source of truth in marketing performance and how triangulation attribution offers a more honest, practical way forward.

They break down how triangulation pulls from platform data, incrementality modeling, and first-party signals, and why attribution should be treated as a strategic specialty—not just a line in a dashboard.

Note: Campfire Consulting's Founder Chris Marine will be speaking at Programmatic I/O New York this September. The Campfire team will be there, and we’d love to see you and continue the conversation in person. If you're attending, drop us a line so we can be in touch! 

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

On the five-year anniversary of Responsibly Different™, we're diving deep into why healthy media ecosystems matter—not just for brands, but for the very fabric of our communities and democracy. Our Founder Chris and Impact Director Benn reflect on the last 5 years of the podcast and the next chapter of the Responsibly Different™ podcast.

Did you know counties that lose their local newspapers see a 2-3% drop in voter turnout? Or that 75% of Americans trust local news compared to only 58% who trust national outlets? As these vital information sources struggle financially, the ripple effects touch everything from civic engagement to community health outcomes.

The podcast explores how programmatic buying, while efficient, often delivers just pennies on the dollar to publishers compared to direct relationships. This financial reality has forced newsrooms to stretch resources dangerously thin, cutting staff and replacing local content with syndicated material. Host Chris Marine shares firsthand experiences from his early career in journalism, painting a vivid picture of what happens when newsrooms lack adequate funding.

We're examining the tension between efficiency and responsibility in media planning. While direct publisher relationships require more time and human interaction, they create stronger partnerships, better placements, and support vital community resources. However, the traditional marketing timeline—where media is treated as the last box to check—makes this approach difficult to execute effectively.

The conversation shifts to how AI and technology advancements are enabling more relevant, contextual messaging that respects audience mindsets throughout their day. Rather than viewing these tools as replacements for human judgment, we see them as opportunities to free marketers to focus on the ethical dimensions of their work.

Listen now to join our exploration of media's role in society and how brands can leverage their advertising investments as a force for good while achieving business objectives. Subscribe to Fireside for more conversations about responsible media practices that strengthen rather than deplete our information ecosystem.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

In this episode of Fireside, Chris Marine and David Gogel sit down with veteran broadcast journalist and Edward R. Murrow Award winner Brian Yocono for a heartfelt conversation about the purpose and power of journalism.

Brian reflects on what it means to report with integrity, the evolving role of local news, and the human side of working in a newsroom. For Chris, who worked alongside Brian early in his career, this conversation is deeply personal — and rooted in the founding values of Campfire: truth, service, and showing up for people.

But it’s also a conversation with real implications for brand leaders, media buyers, and anyone responsible for allocating advertising budgets. Where media dollars go matters. When spent wisely, they can help uphold one of our nation’s foundational pillars — a free and independent press.

Whether you're a strategist, a creative, or simply someone who believes in the power of truth, this episode is a reminder that journalism still matters and it’s worth fighting for.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.

Before you drop a dollar into paid media ask yourself, are you really sure you’re reaching the right people?

In this episode of Fireside, we sit down with Anastassia Laskey, founder of Ground Control Research, to talk about the power of audience insight, the role of AI in speeding up foundational research, and why brands need to go deeper than demographics and surface-level personas.

Ana shares how her team helps companies uncover who their audience really is, what drives them, and how to speak their language with intention, precision, and care. We talk about the cost and time myths around research, how strategy suffers without it, and what it looks like to build campaigns from a place of truth rather than assumption.

If you’re a marketer, media strategist, or founder trying to grow with purpose this one’s for you.

Enjoying this content? Text us your thoughts! (if you want a response please include an email address in your text)

Learn more about Campfire Consulting

Visit the Responsibly Different™ Shop where profits go back to nonprofit organizations. Wear your spark on your sleeve.