All of us start out following the rules of our family or group because we want to stay safe, earn approval, or belong to something larger than ourselves. Safety and belonging are not small motivations, they're important and necessary steps on the pathway of our moral development.

In this conversation with Larkin Swain of the Sanctuary Podcast, Dr. Finlayson-Fife walks through her three-stage framework for spiritual and psychological development and explains the role of obedience in each stage. We begin in fear. We grow into belonging. And in Stage 3, we use the moral compass we developed in Stages 1 and 2 to make our decisions not from fear or compliance, but from our own integrity. When we make that shift from living by the letter of the law to the spirit of it, it can feel like something has gone terribly wrong. But it hasn't. It's actually the whole point.