The newsletter company Mailchimp made an impressive $700 million dollars in revenue in 2019 and, after 20 years, it’s still owned and operated by co-founders, Ben Chestnut and Dan Kurzius. On this episode, Ben shares his tactics for staying focused and calm through market crashes, tech disruptions, and now playing role model for CEOs who think success requires treating employees poorly. Manoush and Jen aren’t so sure about Ben’s advice regarding “scaling.” But as they play voice memos from listeners going through professional zigs zigs, they realize a serious truth about their own small business.

**Who You’ll Hear: **@manoushz (Manoush Zomorodi, host of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @jpoyant (Jen Poyant, cohost of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @benchestnut (CEO and cofounder of Mailchimp)

ZigZag is the business show about being human.

Join a community of listeners riding the twists and turns of late-capitalism, searching for a kinder, more sustainable way. Manoush Zomorodi and Jen Poyant investigate how work and business impact our wellbeing and the planet we live on. On Seasons 4 and 5, hear from rebels and visionaries with radical ideas on how we can build stable lives, careers, and companies. 

If you’re also interested in Jen and Manoush’s personal story and their adventures in starting their own business with a little help from blockchain technology, listen to the first three seasons, starting with Season 1, Chapter 1.

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