Meli & Olivia talk about their shriveled up eggs at the historic age of 32, and imagine what it look like to be mothers.

a few listener emails including: an update on brian's bedbug saga and a story about The One That Got Away. then, m&o chat about trauma as a vehicle for storytelling: when it's overdone, when it's helpful, when it's actually Too Vulnerable To Be Shared.

the prison journalism project is mentioned on this episode! check them out here: https://prisonjournalismproject.org/prison-newspaper-project/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9vqyBhCKARIsAIIcLMFhCS3v5c9XV4NMqdjzc86iVS8dqy5RC-FeP5gfX4pCB5ItRKr3vBYaAlW1EALw_wcB

To listen to the rest of the episode, subscribe to patreon.com/saymorepodcast.

the gals gab about whatever is on their mind including: lucy letby, RFK Jr. (one of these people is honest and it isn't RFK), and listener emails about a sweet karmic loop and finding love amidst the prison system.

M & O read an update from The Brian Bedbug Saga and an email from a listener about breeding kinks and chosen single parenthood. Then, they talk about the existential crises they experience each month around their careers, relevancy, creativity, productivity, and other shit that seems very Not Possible to Deal With when you're about to get your period.

We were overjoyed to talk with Amy Lin, author of the new memoir, HERE AFTER, which details her relationship with her late husband and his sudden passing, the singular experience of young windowhood, and how grief is a language in which we we all eventually become fluent.

Listen to the full episode on Patreon. It's here! Well, mostly. Here is a partial recording of our conversation at Skylight Books in Los Angeles, where we celebrated Melissa's novel Candelaria and talked about the caucasity of spin classes, abuelas surviving the apocalypse, and how archaeologists are similar to writers, among other things. The weird part is that the conversation cuts off once we start talking about an earthquake. SO. We spend the second half of the episode unpacking how internalized misogyny makes us label women as pick me's!

We chat with author Lucas Mann about his most recent collection of essays, ATTACHMENTS, which unpacks the tender, scary, and hilarious experience of contemporary fatherhood. We talk about the impossible image of the Perfect Leftist Father, and the Lack of Personal Space when raising a child.

TEASER. we help a listener through a tough friendship/roommate breakup and talk about how we go about writing about SEX. are u trying to turn your readers on or just show them something about the characters? are sex scenes meant to move the plot forward or are they just a fun break? we also discover we might be prudes.

the gals talk to trad-wife expert, gaby del valle, who has done extensive reporting on the women bringing old school homesteading onto the main feed.

Melissa & Olivia keep getting asked: what is it like to go from poetry to fiction. They talk about it! Also, listeners share a story about their end-of-times pastor grandpa and also ask: is it possible to escape writing commercial and institutional poetry? Only on patreon :)