Scaling Laws

Scaling Laws

By Lawfare & University of Texas Law SchoolNewsGovernmentPoliticsTech News
Download on the App Store

Scaling Laws episodes

  • The Pentagon Goes to War With Anthropic

    An impasse is coming to a head. The resolution is unknown. The Department of Defense has made clear that Anthropic has until 5:01pm ET today, February 27th, 2026, to permit its use of Claude for any lawful purpose. CEO Dario Amodei doubled down on his insistence that Anthropic tools should not be used for mass domestic surveillance or the operation of lethal autonomous weapons. The Pentagon's Spokesman agrees that such usage would indeed be unlawful and yet, the two parties cannot come to terms. If the DOD is to be taken at its word, the likely result is that Anthropic will be labled as a supply chain risk--an unprecedented decision with huge business ramifications. Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, joins Kevin Frazier, Senior Fellow at the Abudnance Institute and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to break this all down.


    You can also read more on this weighty issue via Alan’s two recent Lawfare pieces here and here.



















    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    47 min
  • Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen O'Keefe and Kevin Frazier

    Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Cullen O'Keefe, research director at the Institute for Law & AI, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, about their paper, "Automated Compliance and the Regulation of AI" (and associated Lawfare article), which argues that AI systems can automate many regulatory compliance tasks, loosening the trade-off between safety and innovation in AI policy.


    The conversation covered the disproportionate burden of compliance costs on startups versus large firms; the limitations of compute thresholds as a proxy for targeting AI regulation; how AI can automate tasks like transparency reporting, model evaluations, and incident disclosure; the Goodhart's Law objection to automated compliance; the paper's proposal for "automatability triggers" that condition regulation on the availability of cheap compliance tools; analogies to sunrise clauses in other areas of law; incentive problems in developing compliance-automating AI; the speculative future of automated compliance meeting automated governance; and how co-authoring the paper shifted each author's views on the AI regulation debate.


    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    52 min
  • Claude's Constitution, with Amanda Askell

    Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with Amanda Askell, head of personality alignment at Anthropic, about Claude's Constitution: a 20,000-word document that describes the values, character, and ethical framework of Anthropic's flagship AI model and plays a direct role in its training.


    The conversation covered how the constitution is used during supervised learning and reinforcement learning to shape Claude's behavior; analogies to constitutional law, including fidelity to text, the potential for a body of "case law," and the principal hierarchy of Anthropic, operators, and users; the decision to ground the constitution in virtue ethics and practical judgment rather than rigid rules; the document's treatment of Claude's potential moral patienthood and the question of AI personhood; whether the constitution's values are too Western and culturally specific; the tension between Anthropic's commercial incentives and its stated mission; and whether the constitutional approach can generalize to specialized domains like cybersecurity and military applications.


    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    48 min
  • Live from Ashby: Adaptive AI Governance with Gillian Hadfield and Andrew Freedman

    Kevin Frazier sits down with Andrew Freedman of Fathom and Gillian Hadfield, AI governance scholar, at the Ashby Workshops to examine innovative models for AI regulation.

    They discuss:


    • Why traditional regulation struggles with rapid AI innovation.
    • The concept of Regulatory Markets and how it aligns with the unique governance challenges posed by AI.
    • Critiques of hybrid governance: concerns about a “race to the bottom,” the limits of soft law on catastrophic risks, and how liability frameworks interact with governance.
    • What success looks like for Ashby Workshops and the future of adaptive AI policy design.


    Whether you’re a policy wonk, technologist, or governance skeptic, this episode bridges ideas and practice in a time of rapid technological change.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    55 min
  • The Persuasion Machine: David Rand on How LLMs Can Reshape Political Beliefs

    Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Renee DiResta, associate research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy and contributing editor at Lawfare, spoke with David Rand, professor of information science, marketing, and psychology at Cornell University.


    The conversation covered how inattention to accuracy drives misinformation sharing and the effectiveness of accuracy nudges; how AI chatbots can durably reduce conspiracy beliefs through evidence-based dialogue; research showing that conversational AI can shift voters' candidate preferences, with effect sizes several times larger than traditional political ads; the finding that AI persuasion works through presenting factual claims, but that the claims need not be true to be effective; partisan asymmetries in misinformation sharing; the threat of AI-powered bot swarms on social media; the political stakes of training data and system prompts; and the policy case for transparency requirements.

     

    Additional reading:

    • "Durably Reducing Conspiracy Beliefs Through Dialogues with AI" - Science (2024)
    • "Persuading Voters Using Human-Artificial Intelligence Dialogues" - Nature (2025)
    • "The Levers of Political Persuasion with Conversational Artificial Intelligence" Science (2025)
    • "How Malicious AI Swarms Can Threaten Democracy" - Science (2026)



    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    59 min
  • Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution.

    Nathan Labenz, host of the Cognitive Revolution, sat down with Alan and Kevin to talk about the intersection of AI and the law. The trio explore everything from how AI may address the shortage of attorneys in rural communities to the feasibility and desirability of the so-called "Right to Compute." 

     

    Learn more about the Cognitive Revolution here. It's our second favorite AI podcast!

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1 hr 32 min
  • Is this your last "job"? The AI Economy With AEI's Brent Orrell

    Most folks agree that AI is going to drastically change our economy, the nature of work, and the labor market. What's unclear is when those changes will take place and how best Americans can navigate the transition. 

     

    Brent Orrell, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to help tackle these and other weighty questions.


    Orrell has been studying the future of work since before it was cool. His two cents are very much worth a nickel in this important conversation.

     

    Send us your feedback ([email protected]) and leave us a review!










    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    52 min
  • Rapid Response Pod on The Implications of Claude's New Constitution

    Jakub Kraus, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, spoke with Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, about Anthropic's newly released "constitution" for its AI model, Claude.

     

    The conversation covered the lengthy document's principles and underlying philosophical views, what these reveal about Anthropic's approach to AI development, how market forces are shaping the AI industry, and the weighty question of whether an AI model might ever be a conscious or morally relevant being.

     

    Mentioned in this episode:

    • Kevin Frazier, "Interpreting Claude's Constitution," Lawfare
    • Alan Rozenshtein, "The Moral Education of an Alien Mind," Lawfare


    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    56 min
  • The Honorable AI? Shlomo Klapper Talks Judicial Use of AI
    Shlomo Klapper, founder of Learned Hand, joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of judicial AI, the challenges of scaling technology inside courts, and the implications for legitimacy, due process, and access to justice.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    43 min
  • How AI Can Transform Local Criminal Justice, with Francis Shen

    Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Francis Shen, Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, and candidate for Hennepin County Attorney.


    The conversation covered the intersection of neuroscience, AI, and criminal justice; how AI tools can improve criminal investigations and clearance rates; the role of AI in adjudication and plea negotiations; precision sentencing and individualized justice; the ethical concerns around AI bias, fairness, and surveillance; the practical challenges of implementing AI systems in local government; building institutional capacity and public trust; and the future of the prosecutor's office in an AI-augmented justice system.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    52 min

About Scaling Laws

From the publisher's feed

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the…

More shows like Scaling Laws

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts by Slate Podcasts

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

3,479 Listeners

Decoder with Nilay Patel by The Verge

Decoder with Nilay Patel

3,153 Listeners

Channels with Peter Kafka by Vox Media Podcast Network

Channels with Peter Kafka

554 Listeners

Uncanny Valley | WIRED by WIRED

Uncanny Valley | WIRED

510 Listeners

Rational Security by The Lawfare Institute

Rational Security

1,943 Listeners

The Lawfare Podcast by The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast

6,279 Listeners

Interesting Times by New York Times Opinion

Interesting Times

7,114 Listeners

Politix by Politix

Politix

89 Listeners

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway by Vox Media Podcast Network

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

5,373 Listeners

Decoded by POLITICO by POLITICO

Decoded by POLITICO

390 Listeners

Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

Dwarkesh Podcast

546 Listeners

Hard Fork by The New York Times

Hard Fork

5,568 Listeners

The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

The Ezra Klein Show

16,254 Listeners

Plain English with Derek Thompson by The Ringer

Plain English with Derek Thompson

2,241 Listeners

The AI Daily Brief: Artificial Intelligence News and Analysis by Nathaniel Whittemore

The AI Daily Brief: Artificial Intelligence News and Analysis

667 Listeners