Script Apart with Al Horner

Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead are a duo who don’t wait for permission and refuse to let small budgets reign in their storytelling ambitions. Since announcing themselves as a fierce new force in independent filmmaking a decade ago with the meta-horror Resolution, the pair have released a further four films, each one a staggeringly original triumph of imagination over budgetary restraints. Spring was a low-cost Lovecraftian tale set on a gorgeous stretch of Italian coast that corkscrewed between romance and brutal body-horror. The Endless was a time-loop sci-fi head-scratcher involving a UFO cult that proved similarly spell-binding made on a similar shoestring. By 2019’s Synchronic, about a designer drug that allows users to step through time, they had A-list actors like Anthony Mackie and Jamie Dornan queuing up to work with them, and superhero studios keen to collaborate (they’ve since helmed episodes of Marvel’s Moon Knight and Loki). Together, they're storytellers capable of building epic worlds without requiring epic resources.

While Benson and Moorhead have enjoyed their recent excursions into the MCU, unsettling paranormal puzzles made on a dime are where they say their hearts truly lie. Which is why, when the pandemic struck and the world was thrown into lockdown, they began planning a supernatural mystery they could shoot in Benson’s apartment, star in themselves (the duo often act in their own movies) and craft almost entirely themselves. Something In The Dirt – their most compelling film to date – tells the tale of neighbours John and Levi, drawn into an unlikely friendship by unexplainable phenomenons in their apartment block. They decide to document this activity in search of fame and fortune – but can each party trust the other, as revelations about their secretive lives follow them down a rabbit hole into the unknown?

We met with Benson and Moorhead in person last summer, before Something In The Dirt’s release, while they were filming Loki season two. They told us about their writing habits and helped us decode one of the most jigsaw-like cult dramas in decades – a must-watch for fans of David Robert Mitchell’s Under The Silver Lake and films like it. This is a spoiler conversation so be sure to catch the film before tuning in – it’s available on Hulu for our listeners in America, and video on demand if you’re tuning in from the UK.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

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Mike Flanagan is one of the defining horror storytellers of the last decade. He’s a trusted custodian of tales by some of the greatest horror authors of all time, with Stephen King, Shirley Jackson and Edgar Allan Poe just some of the names he’s adapted into acclaimed shows and movies. His credits as a writer, director and showrunner include The Haunting of Hill House, The Haunting of Bly Manor and The Shining sequel Doctor Sleep. No work is more personal to the filmmaker, however, than 2021’s astonishing vampire drama Midnight Mass. 

In the conversation you’re about to hear, Mike delves into his show’s creation, going back in time over a decade to a version of Midnight Mass he intended to write as a novel. The story of its evolution into one of the most moving meditations on religion in memory (not to mention one of Netflix’s most acclaimed ever series) is the story of a series of huge life changes for the 44-year-old, as his relationship to alcohol, faith, family and other facets of his life began to alter.

The show starred Zach Gilford as Riley, a recovering addict returning to his small isolated hometown of Crockett Island after serving four years in prison for killing someone in a drunk-driving incident. There he reunites with an old flame, named Erin Greene, played by Kate Siegel, Mike’s partner and frequent collaborator. Erin is pregnant, but that pregnancy takes an unexpected turn following the arrival of an enigmatic young priest on the island, who unleashes upon members of the local church-going community a series of seemingly impossible miracles. What follows is an unholy, blood-soaked baptism, as the line between what’s miraculous and what’s monstrous becomes dangerously blurred.

Discover why Mike’s love for Midnight Mass is so great, he still has the angel-slash-vampire’s prosthetic wings in his garage. Find out all about abandoned plans for a second season of the show, in which Riley was to be revived as the show’s antagonist. And learn why there’s a musicality to monologues that makes them a joy to write (with some tips on how to write your own).

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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This week we’re joined by acclaimed writer-director Todd Field, whose new drama Tar recently picked up a number of BAFTA and Oscar nominations, and understandably so. It’s an up-close portrait of a prodigious but problematic classical pianist named Lydia Tar, played by Cate Blanchett, whose achievements as the first female conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic are blighted by a history of sexual misconduct now threatening to unravel her life and mental health. Lydia’s abuses of power in this tense, sensory drama have seen the film become a lightning rod for conversations about so-called “cancel culture.” But as you’ll discover in this episode, Tar began life long before that term had been coined.

There are deeply human questions of power, corrosion and culpability within this story that dovetail in interesting ways with our current climate – but are bigger than that buzzword and the volatile conversation around it. In the conversation you're about to hear, Todd breaks down key themes, scenes and characters in fascinating detail. Is Lydia really being haunted? What was the early incarnation like that before the project was rooted in the high stakes world of classical music, when the character was set to be the head of a media conglomerate? And when the film ends with a reference to a video game named Monster Hunter, how accurate is it to interpret that this has been a narrative about a cancel culture fall from grace – the titular monster, finally hunted?

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Today on the show, we’re joined by Samuel D. Hunter – playwright-turned-screenwriter of moving new drama, The Whale. Directed by Darren Aronofsky, the film tells the tale of Charlie (Brendan Fraser) – a reclusive former teacher who developed destructive eating habits following a devastating past tragedy. With seemingly days to live, Charlie desperately attempts to reconnect with a daughter who resents him, and is sinking into a cynicism that Charlie finds heartbreaking.

It’s a film that, you may have heard, has stoked a wide range of reactions, which Sam and I get into in detail. We talk about its provoking title, which he explains was designed to prod at people’s prejudices before taking on a completely different context in the story. We discuss the challenges and opportunities presented to Sam when it came to adapting his stage play into a screenplay – and what the scarcity of media telling the tales of plus-size protagonists does for the fabric of our society.

This is a spoiler-filled conversation so please be sure to watch The Whale before listening in.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

To get ad-free episodes and exclusive content, join us on Patreon.

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It’s thirty years to the day since a grouchy weatherman named Phil Connors found himself reliving the same day over and over again in Groundhog Day – a comedy that’s timeless in more ways than one. On today’s episode, we're joined by the film’s writer, Danny Rubin, as we delve into his initial screenplay for the iconic time-loop farce, which became one of the most beloved comedies of its generation.

Danny wrote the film as a spec script in the early ‘90s. It soon landed in the hands of Harold Ramis of Ghostbusters and Caddyshack fame, and the pair began to develop the screenplay together. From there, Groundhog Day went through a number of changes as the pair decided to lean into the comedic potential of the premise – and lean away from some of the more "indie" and experimental elements of Danny’s original vision for the movie. Their hard work paid off – Groundhog Day was met with rave reviews on release and won a BAFTA for Best Original Screenplay. It became one of 1993's highest grossing movies and its influence has only grown from there: today, the story lives on not just in the form of the acclaimed stage musical that Danny wrote – there’s also the small matter of films and TV shows like Edge of Tomorrow, Palm Springs and Russian Doll, all of which took Groundhog Day's time-loop concept and ran with it in new directions.

In the conversation you’re about to hear, Danny tells us how surreal it's been witnessing “Groundhog Day” become ingrained as an idiom in the English language. We hear about the vampire fiction that served as the movie’s surprising inspiration and talk about why weatherman”was the perfect profession for Phil and his detached, icy personality. Listen out also for details on Danny's original ending for the movie – a twist that found the character Rita beginning her own time loop on February 3rd.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Tony Kushner is the Pulitzer Prize-winning creator of Angels in America and the long-time writing partner of a certain Steven Spielberg. His latest collaboration with the director, co-written with the Close Encounters filmmaker, sees Steven pulling the curtain back on his fascinating childhood, delving back to a time in which his blossoming love for filmmaking began to entwine with seismic changes in his family life. It was no surprise to see the drama collect a Best Picture nod at this week's Academy Award nominations – it's a peerless portrayal of a family shattering in real time that acknowledges both the joy of storytelling and the havoc it can wreak to us and those around us.

Tony co-wrote the film with Steven having worked closely with him since 2005 – their previous collaborations include Munich, Lincoln and West Side Story. This project was different, though, with Tony required to act almost as a therapist to his friend as part of the writing process. For fifteen years, he’d been trying to convince Steven to tell the story of his adolescence. As you’ll hear in this episode, it was only after a blazing row between them on the set of West Side Story that Steven, as an olive branch to Tony, agreed to finally begin work on it. When it came to writing, Tony had to coax intimate details from Steven in a series of Zoom conversations, pressing his friend to delve deep into his recollection of those years – even the painful parts. In fact, especially the painful parts.

In the spoiler-filled conversation you’re about to hear, we unpack his and Steven’s screenplay for the film in its entirety, discussing why The Fabelmans is more than a love letter to cinema as it’s been billed in some places (to Sammy, filmmaking is as much a curse as a gift, unravelling his family). We also touch on his own past experience of writing from a place of autobiography with his musical Caroline or Change, and talk about the film’s intriguing sequence with Sammy’s school bully. Oh and if you think Al was going to chat to Tony and not ask him about the brilliant end sequence involving David Lynch as John Ford, you have another thing coming – that’s one of our favourite final scenes of any film in recent memory, so of course we dig into that.
 
Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Buckle up, listeners – we’re heading to Pandora. Avatar: The Way of Water is the long-awaited sequel to one of the biggest movies of all time, and our guests today are two of its talented co-writers. You might know Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver as the screenwriters behind the brilliant Planet of the Apes reboot trilogy and 2015’s Jurassic World. If you’re familiar with those movies, you’ll know exactly why legendary director James Cameron chose the pair as collaborators for this sequel to his 2009 sci-fi fantasia – both of those franchises snuck sideswipes at man’s exploitation of the natural world into their exciting set-pieces and blockbuster action.

The Way of Water is a much more complex movie than the first Avatar, with a lot more moving parts, some of which are seeds for movies to come (this is the first in a number of sequels that Amanda and Rick have also worked on, in production now). The film picks up with our heroes from the first movie, Jake (Sam Worthington) and Neytiri (Zoe Saldana), fighting another battle fourteen years after the Battle of the Hallelujah Mountains – parenthood. The pair have had a family and now have an even more pronounced reason to protect their land from the colonisers from Earth, seeking to make Pandora man’s new home, having wrecked their own.

Rick and Amanda – who have been married since 1989 and collaborating since 1992’s The Hand That Rocks The Cradle – told us all about how the Way of Water’s screenplay came together. We get into exactly how they, Cameron and fellow co-writer Josh Friedman brought back the villainous Colonel Quaritch, the Mowgli-esque origins of new character Spider, and the environmental truths about our own climate change-stricken world that the film takes aim at. There’s also a thorough breakdown of that death in the film’s final act, and Al at various points attempts to speak Na’vi. Badly, naturally.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Today, we have with us the extraordinary Charlotte Wells – writer-director of one of the most affecting feature debuts in recent memory. Aftersun is a meditative drama about a father and daughter on a resort holiday in Turkey, told through the eyes and camcorder footage of 11-year-old Sophie, played by Frankie Corio. She shares a sweet relationship with her father Callum, played by Paul Mescal. Across their holiday, however, she’s able to steal glimpses of him wrestling with problems beyond her comprehension, – problems he attempts to hide from the world. It’s a story about memory, parenthood and the heartbreak of growing up and realising that your parents are people, too, with their own burdens to carry. Inevitably, it’s being described as an awards season frontrunner, and one of the best movies of 2022.

In the conversation you’re about to hear, Charlotte tells me how the film began as an exploration of her relationship with her own dad, who she sadly lost aged sixteen. There’s a certain overlap between her life and the events of the movie that we unpack in this chat, as well as some big differences between her early drafts of Aftersun versus the final film. Initially, the film was set to feature an adult version of Sophie wandering through scenes following her childhood self, like a sun-soaked Scrooge in A Christmas Carol. There was also a romantic relationship at the holiday resort for Callum that got jettisoned, and much more melodrama, a more pronounced plot.

We talk why she stripped away those elements to drill deeper into the father-daughter tensions at the heart of the film, what it is about the pressures and repetitions of a family holiday that make for such an interesting backdrop to the film, and what exactly is happening in the film’s astonishing emotional climax: a dance sequence set to Queen’s Under Pressure, whose lyrics take on a poignant new meaning in the context of Callum and Sophie’s relationship. It’s a spoiler conversation, so be sure to watch the film on Mubi before tuning in.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Is White Noise a disaster movie, a family drama, a drugged-out conspiracy thriller or a satirical comedy? The truth is it’s all of the above, and for its writer-director Noah Baumbach, something else altogether – a dystopian delight that represents the biggest left turn of his career so far. Since bursting into the spotlight two decades ago, the New Yorker – famous for movies like Squid and the Whale, Margot at the Wedding and Marriage Story – has become renowned for creating intimate snapshots of American family life. Whether working on his own or collaborating with the likes of his partner Greta Gerwig or Wes Anderson, his movies are typically small in scale but big in emotional depth, delving deep into the interpersonal lives of characters you can’t help but fall in love with. 

At least, that’s what used to define a Baumbach movie. White Noise is the sound of an auteur stepping boldly out of his comfort zone. It’s an apocalyptic  adaptation of a novel that till now was thought to be unfilmable (Don DeLilo’s revered post-modern classic was full of dense prose, lyrical absurdity and satirical sharp-shooting at American hysteria; not the easiest thing to translate to screen). A lot of the film takes place in a supermarket that’s both a community hub and a cathedral to American consumerism. And a large chunk of the movie involves grand CGI depictions of a toxic cloud engulfing a community who descend into panic and lawlessness. All things far removed from the grounded domesticity of Noah’s normal storytelling.

In the conversation you’re about to hear, Noah talks about why the time was right for such a departure. We discuss the film’s Covid-19 and Trump-era commentary, and his love for hiding in the opening scene of movies an encapsulation of the thematic content to come. You’ll also find out why he made one major change to the novel involving the character Babette, and why White Noise isn’t a cautionary tale – we as a society are already living in the disorientated, misinformation-filled world of this story, he explains. The future is now – both for America, and for Noah Baumbach.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

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Today on Script Apart – something new! For a while, we've wondered how to cover great screenplays by writers who are not able to come on the show or are sadly no longer with us. Which led us to the idea of Script Club – a book club, but for screenplays. We'll be inviting great storytellers onto the show in the coming months to discuss scripts they adore by screenwriters who are not able to come on the show themselves. Kicking off this intermittent series of bonus episodes is an icon of modern animation – Lee Unkrich, director of films like Toy Story 3 and Coco.

Lee was an integral creative force at Pixar for over 25 years before stepping down in 2019 following the incredible success of Coco two years earlier. That film told the tale of a 12-year-old boy named Miguel who is accidentally transported to the Land of the Dead. Lee's favourite movie, a film that he's poured a decade of his life into quite literally writing the book on, is similarly inhabited by ghosts and apparitions from the great beyond, in a very different way. Since he was a teenager, Lee has been obsessed with The Shining – Stanley Kubrick's seminal horror, co-written with novelist Diane Johnson. It's an obsession that recently culminated in a genuinely epic three volume book for publishing house Taschen, full of brand new interviews with all sorts of creatives who worked on the movie, as well as unseen photos from the film's creation.

During his research, Lee – who was granted unheralded access to the Kubrick archives – read draft after draft of the film, gaining an astonishing insight into Kubrick's writing process. On the episode, recorded in early December in London's Picturehouse Central, he recounts some of the biggest changes across those different iterations of the Shining screenplay – including a subplot involving a scrapbook that would drastically change the feel of the film, and a more blood-soaked ending that saw practically every character meeting a grisly end. Yes, even poor little Danny.

Lee also weighs in on the film's unique place in our film culture as this subject of constant speculation and theorising about its hidden meanings, sharing some of his own interpretations of the script, and breaks down key scenes and characters. This was a fun experiment to record. If you like it, and want to see us record more in this bonus format, let us know! We'd love to hear your feedback.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram, or email us on [email protected].

Support for this episode comes from ScreenCraft, Arc Studio Pro and WeScreenplay.

To get ad-free episodes and exclusive content, join us on Patreon.

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