In this week's episode of Search with Candour, Jack Chambers-Ward and Mark Williams-Cook discuss the evolving landscape of search in the context of Large Language Models (LLMs), the challenges they bring, including A LOT of spam and how they are being manipulated in search.

They talk about the potential future of AI search, and the implications for brands and consumers as well as the responsibilities of monitoring and mitigating misinformation, the need for in-depth product data, and the feasibility of AI taking over transactional tasks.

Sponsored by fatjoe:

Are you ready to get started? Sign up for your free fatjoe account: https://fatjoe.com/

References:

• Use The Brand Control Quadrant To Reclaim Your Brand Narrative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMx3u6fgg5w
• Why OpenAI & Perplexity want clickstream data: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/myriamjessier_ai-search-marketing-activity-7348972981231988738-jDHI
• Hacked sites and expired domains are being cited by ChatGPT: https://digitaloft.co.uk/hacked-sites-and-expired-domains-are-being-used-as-chatgpt-sources/

00:00 Introduction and banter

01:28 Discussing LLM Spam and Manipulation

02:16 Sponsor Message: Fatjoe

03:59 The Uses of LLMs in Search

06:03 Challenges and Future of AI Search

16:38 Phishing and Security Concerns with LLMs

19:54 Responsibility and Brand Protection

24:47 The Future of AI and Search

31:10 Damage Control in the Age of Generative AI

31:41 LLMs are Leaky Buckets

32:48 Firefighting Tools for AI Errors

34:22 The Importance of Brand Reputation

35:15 High-Value Leads and Conversion Rates

36:46 Misleading AI Conversations

37:27 SEO Strategies for E-commerce

40:14 The Future of AI in E-commerce

44:33 The Impact of AI on Consumer Behaviour

47:23 Concluding Thoughts and Upcoming Events

Jack Chambers Ward dives into the critical nuances of internal communication with renowned communications coach Salvatore Manzi.

Salvatore shares valuable insights on the 'rule of 10 seconds' in business meetings, the importance of structure in creating genuine connections, and the method of speaking to the shared interests of your audience.

They also discuss practical tips for reducing cognitive load, including scheduling white space and using mind mapping tools like X Mind.

This conversation is essential for anyone in SEO, digital marketing, or any fast-paced tech environment looking to enhance their communication skills.

Sponsored by fatjoe:

Are you ready to get started? Sign up for your free fatjoe account: https://fatjoe.com/

Follow Salvatore

• Website: https://www.salvatoremanzi.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvatorejmanzi/
• Book: https://www.clearandcompellingplaybook.com

Salvatore’s recommendations

• Mind mapping tool - X-Mind: https://xmind.app
• The Impactful Engineer Podcast: https://impactfulengineer.buzzsprout.com/

00:00 The Rule of 10 Seconds

01:28 Introduction

03:02 Sponsor: Fatjoe

04:49 Welcome Salvatore Manzi

05:21 The Importance of Communication in Tech Teams

08:59 Adapting Communication Styles

11:03 Managing Cognitive Load

18:56 Creating Inclusive Spaces for Neurodivergent Individuals

36:19 Understanding the Importance of SEO Jargon

38:14 Introducing the HIP Framework

40:20 The Power of Structure in Communication

46:07 Managing Overwhelm and Meeting Efficiency

52:00 The Art of Saying No

57:43 Metaphors and Mind Mapping

01:00:25 Recommendations

01:02:21 Conclusion and Upcoming Guests

In this episode, host Jack Chambers-Ward is joined by Harry Evans from Twelve Twenty Five to discuss the significance of incorporating video content into SEO and social media strategies for 2025.

Together, they explore why video content is a game-changer, share practical tips to get started, and provide insights on engaging your audience effectively.

The conversation covers real-world examples, actionable advice, and touches on evolving technologies in digital marketing.

00:00 Introduction

03:46 Welcome Harry Evans

05:16 The Importance of Video in SEO and Social Media

07:36 Real People, Real Impact

11:19 The Future of Video and Marketing Strategies

18:05 Client Success Stories and Practical Tips

41:17 The Two-Slice Toaster Dilemma

41:25 Marketing to Different Demographics

42:03 The Evolution of Brand Representation

44:05 Creating Engaging Video Content

45:17 Finding Your Voice on Camera

46:11 Overcoming the Fear of Recording

47:54 Practical Tips for Video Content Creation

54:17 The Importance of Consistency

01:01:13 Recommendations and Tools

01:12:58 Upcoming Episodes and Conclusion

Links to follow Harry:

• Twelve Twenty Five: https://www.twelvetwentyfive.io/
• Care Launch: https://www.carelaunch.uk/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/h-evans/

Harry's recommendations:

• Handbrake - Open source video encoding: https://handbrake.fr/
• How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4865.How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People
• The One Thing: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16256798-the-one-thing

Jack Chambers-Ward is joined by Ramon Eijkemanns to discuss how to calculate the value of SEO traffic and if SEO needs rebranding. 

They explore the value of SEO traffic, the potential need for rebranding within the industry, and how metrics like market share and opportunity cost are redefining the field.

Ramon shares fascinating insights from his 20+ years in search marketing, including how to better calculate and communicate the true value of organic traffic. They also discuss the impact of AI and LLM on search behaviour and consumer visibility. Plus, Ramon shares his unique Blade Runner story!

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and engage with the podcast!

Follow Ramon

• Website: https://eikhart.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramoneijkemans/ 
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/eikhart.com 

Ramon’s Recommendations

• Mistral: https://mistral.ai/
• Self help Singh: https://www.youtube.com/@selfhelpsingh 

Links

• Jack’s MMA fight for charity: https://justgiving.com/page/jack-chambers-ward
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4AILSpWLI74daOhECb8Hm0?si=3e16881117234da5 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/search-with-candour-seo-podcast/id1456880812 

00:00 Introduction

04:57 Ramon Eijkemanns' Background

07:03 SEO Opportunity Cost

09:02 Market Share and SEO

11:05 Challenges in Calculating SEO Value

17:33 The Future of SEO and AI

39:18 Technical SEO Campaign Success

40:19 Rebranding SEO

41:35 The Evolution of SEO Practices

44:01 The Importance of Results Over Methods

44:45 Rebranding the SEO Profession

47:58 SEO Job Titles and Industry Perceptions

51:40 Client Expectations and Industry Trends

56:45 Blade Runner and the Journey into SEO

01:03:53 Ramon’s Recommendations

01:10:49 Upcoming Guests and Final Thoughts

Jack Chambers-Ward sits down with Chris Ridley from Evoluted to discuss an innovative solution for managing SEO and PPC campaigns simultaneously.They explore how this tool can help businesses save money by avoiding search term cannibalisation. Chris shares insights on balancing organic and paid strategies, the importance of understanding SERP competition, and the evolving role of AI in search marketing.

Links to follow Chris:

• Website: https://www.evoluted.net/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-ridley/
• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/PPC_Chris
• Digital E-A-Ts: https://www.digital-eat.com/chris-ridley/
• Related article: https://www.evoluted.net/resources/seomonitor-adsync-script

00:00 Introduction

01:01 Welcome to Search With Candour

02:40 Welcome Chris Ridley

04:31 The Concept of Search Cannibalisation

15:03 Implementing the Tool: Technical Details

17:40 Challenges and Future Adaptations

31:33 Understanding User Journeys and Brand Awareness

32:25 Google Ads Reporting and Data Transparency

34:55 The Importance of Business Objectives in Marketing

37:58 Multi-Channel Marketing Strategies

46:11 Effective Use of Remarketing

50:51 Recommendations and Tools for Marketers

56:56 Upcoming Guests and Future Topics

Jack Chambers-Ward sits down with Nick LerRoy to explore the landscape of SEO jobs in 2025.

They discuss how job roles in the SEO industry have changed, the impact of AI, and key skills that will keep professionals relevant.

Tune in for valuable insights on effective communication, personal branding, and navigating the job market in the ever-changing world of SEO.

Links to follow Nick

Nick’s site: https://nickleroy.com/

SEO jobs: https://www.seojobs.com/

SEO for lunch newsletter: https://www.seoforlunch.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickleroyseo/

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/nickleroy.com

Links to resources:

https://www.seojobs.com/community/seo-job-report/

https://www.seojobs.com/interview-questions/

Nick’s recommendations

https://fireflies.ai/

https://www.amazon.com/Collection-Books-Go-Givers-Go-Giver-Leader/dp/912406288X/

https://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Money-Timeless-Lessons-Happiness/dp/B08D9WJ9G8/

00:00 Introduction: The Future of SEO Jobs

01:30 Welcome to Search With Candour

01:55 Welcome Nick LeRoy

02:14 The Evolution of SEO Job Market

02:56 Nick LeRoy's Journey and Insights

04:15 The Shift Towards Personality-Driven Content

07:52 Challenges in the Current Job Market

16:28 The Expanding Role of SEOs

38:03 The Importance of Personal Branding

45:20 Job Search Journey and Building Rapport

46:46 Freelancing and the Importance of Reliability

50:15 The Small SEO Industry and Personal Branding

01:01:07 The Role of AI in SEO and Business

01:11:00 Effective Communication and Client Relationships

01:11:16 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

01:26:24 Outro

Jack Chambers-Ward is joined by Dana DiTomaso from Kick Point Playbook to discuss common mistakes seen in GA4 setups in 2025.

Jack and Dana get into topics like the importance of proper tag manager setups, dealing with duplicate traffic, and strategies for better data filtering.

Dana also shares horror stories from hundreds of GA4 audits and tips on improving GA4 configurations. Don't miss the practical insights and tips to enhance your digital marketing efforts!

Follow Dana

• Website: https://kpplaybook.com/
• New GA4 audit course: https://kpplaybook.com/google-analytics-audit-course/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dditomaso/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kp_playbook/videos
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/danaditomaso.com

Resources

• https://kpplaybook.com/resources/how-to-track-traffic-from-aio-featured-snippets-paa-results-ga4/
• https://kpplaybook.com/resources/how-to-verify-consent-signals-are-being-received-correctly-in-ga4-for-modeling/
• https://gettingthingsdone.com/

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:10 Common GA4 Setup Mistakes

00:57 Podcast Introduction and Host Updates

02:44 Upcoming Events and Announcements

04:49 Conversation with Dana DiTomaso Begins

05:45 GA4 Horror Stories and Common Issues

09:45 Advanced GA4 Tag Manager Tips

15:14 Importance of Proper Traffic Filtering

22:32 Tracking AI Traffic and Brand Building

34:59 Challenges in Digital Marketing and Analytics

41:35 Mike's Report and Learning Habits

44:31 The Importance of Annotations in GA4

56:01 Challenges with GA4 Implementations

01:01:30 Using BigQuery with GA4

01:03:01 Content Marketing Strategies with SparkToro

01:05:29 Personal Interests and Recommendations

01:13:00 Wrapping Up and Future Plans

Join Jack Chambers-Ward and guest Owain Lloyd-Williams on this week's episode of Search With Candour as they delve into transforming often dry and boring B2B content into fun and engaging material. They discuss the competitive nature of B2B industries, strategies for creating unique content, and the importance of thinking outside the box for impactful SEO. Jack and Owain also share their experiences, ideas, and strategies for working with B2B clients. Links to follow Owain:Website: ⁠https://www.owainlloydwilliams.com/⁠LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/owain-lloyd-williams-a8967852/⁠ Bluesky: ⁠https://bsky.app/profile/owainlloydwilliams.com⁠Chapters00:00 Introduction: Making B2B Content Fun and Engaging00:47 Meet the Guest: Owen Lloyd Williams01:35 The Challenge of Dry B2B Content02:33 SEO Strategies for B2B Content03:40 The Importance of Focus and Music05:47 Navigating Regulations and Compliance08:07 Creating Engaging B2B Content20:30 The Role of Case Studies and White Papers34:50 Collaborating Across Teams41:20 Challenges with Small vs. Enterprise Clients41:44 Strategies for Startups Competing with Giants42:37 Leveraging AI and Conversational Content44:53 The Agility Advantage of Small Brands46:04 Building Effective B2B Relationships47:42 Integrating SEO into Content Production49:43 Impact of AI on B2B vs. B2C52:35 Actionable SEO Tips for B2B Brands55:30 Recommended Tools and Software57:38 Personal Recommendations and Podcast Wrap-Up01:13:45 Conclusion and Upcoming Guests

Jack Chambers-Ward gathers an esteemed panel of SEO all-stars: Dawn Anderson, Jono Alderson, Myriam Jessier, and, the birthday boy himself, Chris Green.

Together, they discuss the future of search, focusing on key topics such as the impact of AI mode, the evolution of search behaviour, and the transparency of data.

Tune in for an insightful discussion from these industry experts about how they are navigating the ever-shifting SEO landscape and what it means for the future of search marketing.

Follow Chris:

🎂Website: https://www.torquepartnership.com/

🎂LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgreenseo/

🎂Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/chris-green.net

Follow Dawn:

🏃‍♀️Website: https://bertey.com

🏃‍♀️LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/msdawnanderson/

🏃‍♀️Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/dawnieando.bsky.social

Follow Jono:

🎮Website: https://www.jonoalderson.com/

🎮LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonoalderson/

🎮Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jono.id

Follow Myriam:

🐙Neurospicy: https://www.neurospicy.agency/

🐙 Pragm: https://www.pragm.co/

🐙LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/myriamjessier/

🐙Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/myriam.dopamine.builders

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview

02:32 Introducing the SEO all-stars

04:37 The Future of Search and AI

05:23 Social Contract with Google

11:39 Challenges and Opportunities in SEO

22:29 Legal and Ethical Considerations

27:55 Google's Role and Responsibilities

36:00 Impact of AI on Gen Z and Millennials

36:11 Google's Rethinking Search with AI

36:55 Organisational Commitment to AI

38:47 Challenges for Tool Providers

40:26 The Impact of Multimodal Search

47:13 What is “High Quality Content”?

57:09 Brand Trust and AI Narratives

01:08:12 Google's Market Share and Future

01:11:53 Closing Thoughts

Jack Chambers-Ward and Mark Williams-Cook explore all the latest updates from Google I/O 2025. There were some HUGE announcements, including AI mode, personalisation in search, and agentic search.

The discussion also covers the challenges of tracking traffic from AI Mode, ads in AI Overviews and AI Mode on ad revenue, and the future of content creation for informational websites. Plus, we answer listener questions and discuss reactions from across the SEO industry.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

00:16 Google IO Highlights and Initial Reactions

01:03 AI Mode launches in the US

03:34 Challenges and Opportunities with AI Mode

06:13 The Future of Rank Tracking and Personalisation

09:19 AI Agents coming to Google Search

14:54 Ads in AI Mode and AI Overviews

19:44 Deep Search and Content Visualisation

25:40 Q&A: How are you tracking AI traffic? How are you communicating with clients?

31:48 Q&A: Do you think that PAA questions will mirror prompts in the future will alsoasked.com pick these up?

33:54 Q&A: How do you think websites whose business model depends on informational content will survive?

42:24 Q&A: How can we navigate this time where execs must focus less on falling traffic & conversions?

43:46 Q&A: What is happening to our understanding of the user? Will we only need to understand how AI reasons, not humans?

50:13 Ashley Segura’s reaction to Google I/O

51:03 Tamara Novitović’s reaction to Google I/O

52:36 Sam Torres’s reaction to Google I/O

54:21 Final Thoughts and Future Discussions

Links

• https://youtu.be/bDVpI23q8Zg?si=hWf-BqZOyB46Av_M
• https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-ai-mode-is-here-but-you-cant-track-it-properly/ 
• https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ashley-segura_googleio-googleio-contentstrategy-activity-7330977072435077120-C5xr 
• https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tamara-novitovic_seo-bazoom-linkbuilding-activity-7330938839110258688-xbRc
• https://www.linkedin.com/posts/samantha-torres-seo_googles-announcement-for-ai-mode-as-a-user-activity-7331052950104018944-qhJr