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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liuand Azeezah Kanji are joined by state crime expert Penny Green and Holocaust historian Omar Bartov to discuss the applicability of the term genocide, the history of its framing, and ways of moving beyond genocidal dynamics.
For weeks, hundreds of international law and genocide experts have been warning that the situation in Gaza is approaching or has become an active genocide, a conclusion very vociferously rejected by Israel and its allies.
They examine how the term has circulated far beyond legal circles and taken on a particular affective power in the popular imagination. They consider how this language circulates in such a way to form a basis for acts of solidarity at the level of civil society to describe the horrors that people see before them. We consider how this massive protest at the level of civil society might be a more powerful means to move leaders than the implementation of law.
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
www.instagram.com/speaking_out_of_place
“I drove for like a half an hour into absolute nothingness, and I left the car. It was three o'clock in the morning. It was minus 17 degrees and it was absolutely still. I've never experienced stillness such as that. I mean, it's like you feel like you can feel your atoms move or not move because it's so cold. And the sky is full of the Northern Lights. So you are already in a remote place, but you want to go further. And I think maybe those themes of going out into the wilderness are motivated by the urge to connect. And I think Issa López has really incorporated it beautifully into the script. And the show tells of this great disconnect between people. So not only are we disconnected from our environment, but we are disconnected from each other.
When we were shooting I sometimes thought, there is this beauty about collaboration between a director, cinematographer, and production designer, and all these key people. And I'm more and more convinced there's some kind of conscious thing happening. And there's also something subconscious happening.”
How does the place we’re born influence our beliefs? What would it be like to live in a world run by women, where it’s perpetually night, and the dead can speak to the living? In this episode, we discuss the new season of HBO’s True Detective: Night Country with award-winning cinematographer Florian Hoffmeister.
Known for his work on Tár, Pachinko, Great Expectations, and most recently, the new season of True Detective, he's also known for his collaboration with director Terence Davies on the films The Deep Blue Sea and A Quiet Passion. His work on Great Expectations earned him an Primetime Emmy and a BAFTA in cinematography, and in 2022, he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for his work on Tár.
http://florianhoffmeister.de/
www.hbo.com/true-detective
www.imdb.com/title/tt2356777/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Photo: Jodie Foster, Kali Reis · Photograph by Michele K. Short/HBO
How does the place we’re born influence our beliefs? What would it be like to live in a world run by women, where it’s perpetually night, and the dead can speak to the living? In this episode, we discuss the new season of HBO’s True Detective: Night Country with award-winning cinematographer Florian Hoffmeister.
Known for his work on Tár, Pachinko, Great Expectations, and most recently, the new season of True Detective, he's also known for his collaboration with director Terence Davies on the films The Deep Blue Sea and A Quiet Passion. His work on Great Expectations earned him an Primetime Emmy and a BAFTA in cinematography, and in 2022, he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for his work on Tár.
“I drove for like a half an hour into absolute nothingness, and I left the car. It was three o'clock in the morning. It was minus 17 degrees and it was absolutely still. I've never experienced stillness such as that. I mean, it's like you feel like you can feel your atoms move or not move because it's so cold. And the sky is full of the Northern Lights. So you are already in a remote place, but you want to go further. And I think maybe those themes of going out into the wilderness are motivated by the urge to connect. And I think Issa López has really incorporated it beautifully into the script. And the show tells of this great disconnect between people. So not only are we disconnected from our environment, but we are disconnected from each other.
When we were shooting I sometimes thought, there is this beauty about collaboration between a director, cinematographer, and production designer, and all these key people. And I'm more and more convinced there's some kind of conscious thing happening. And there's also something subconscious happening.”
http://florianhoffmeister.de/
www.hbo.com/true-detective
www.imdb.com/title/tt2356777/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Photo credits: Michele K. Short / HBO
In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu and Azeezah Kanji talk with Frédéric Mégret, Neve Gordon, and Nicola Perugini. As the devastation of Gaza is permitted to continue to unfold, and colonial violence also intensifies in the West Bank, we discuss the role and responsibility of international law in enabling and structuring mass violence, the enduring importance of colonial histories in shaping the colonial present of international law .
In the face of the refusal or failure of domestic state law regimes and governments to confront even extreme instances of violence we often turn to international law as a panacea or at least a site of salvation and hope. And yet we know that international law not only prohibits certain forms of violence, but actually enables others, including shaped in part by its own colonial histories, perhaps no longer articulated explicitly in terms of standards of civilization, the language of savages and barbarians, but encoding a colonial and racial line in maybe more subtle, and less obvious ways.
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
www.instagram.com/speaking_out_of_place
“I tried to go through the history that I know of and the studies that I have researched from where educational processes started. And usually, when I say young, we're talking college age or more. And so I find I just finished a semester at Union Theological Seminary in New York and graduate and postgrad students, they either were angry or sad or just, you know, in shock that they have never heard through the whole semester, after years of study, that they've never heard the Native history as we know it. We've always been overrun with Western historical domination as they see it, that they came here for benevolence, they were brought a civilization, they brought us cars and tech, you know, all these things. It was the ships that came while we stood on the shore, watching the ships come, welcoming, abundance, giving. And then they came and they took what we offered, but they took more. And that's where we're at. And now we're seeing a whole abandonment of spirit and put into the ideas of a dogmatic soul. Where in Native is that we are shown the possibilities, and we're able to choose freely about what we're shown. We're never told to do this or say that or we were shown because it was a living and is a living language. Learning is a living, it's not a stagnant informational data bank. So this is how education is to me.”
How can we learn to speak the language of the Earth and cultivate our intuitive intelligence?
Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation of South Dakota and has a long history with Indigenous activism and advocacy. Tiokasin is the Founder, Host and Executive Producer of “First Voices Radio” (formerly “First Voices Indigenous Radio”) for the last 31 years in New York City and Seattle/Olympia, Washington. In 2016, he received a Nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize from the International Institute of Peace Studies and Global Philosophy. Other recent recognitions include: Native Arts and Cultures Foundation National Fellowship in Music (2016), National Endowment for the Arts National Heritage Fellowship Nominee (2017), Indigenous Music Award Nominee for Best Instrumental Album (2019) and National Native American Hall of Fame Nominee (2018, 2019). He also was recently nominated for “Nominee for the 2020 Americans for the Arts Johnson Fellowship for Artists Transforming Communities”. He is the Founder of Akantu Intelligence.
https://firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/
https://akantuintelligence.org
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Songs featured on this episode are “Butterfly Against the Wind”
And from the album Somewhere In There
“Spatial Moon” and “Sunrise Moon”
Composed by Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Alex Alexander
Music on this episode is courtesy of Tiokasin Ghosthorse.
How can we learn to speak the language of the Earth and cultivate our intuitive intelligence?
Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation of South Dakota and has a long history with Indigenous activism and advocacy. Tiokasin is the Founder, Host and Executive Producer of “First Voices Radio” (formerly “First Voices Indigenous Radio”) for the last 31 years in New York City and Seattle/Olympia, Washington. In 2016, he received a Nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize from the International Institute of Peace Studies and Global Philosophy. Other recent recognitions include: Native Arts and Cultures Foundation National Fellowship in Music (2016), National Endowment for the Arts National Heritage Fellowship Nominee (2017), Indigenous Music Award Nominee for Best Instrumental Album (2019) and National Native American Hall of Fame Nominee (2018, 2019). He also was recently nominated for “Nominee for the 2020 Americans for the Arts Johnson Fellowship for Artists Transforming Communities”. He is the Founder of Akantu Intelligence.
“I tried to go through the history that I know of and the studies that I have researched from where educational processes started. And usually, when I say young, we're talking college age or more. And so I find I just finished a semester at Union Theological Seminary in New York and graduate and postgrad students, they either were angry or sad or just, you know, in shock that they have never heard through the whole semester, after years of study, that they've never heard the Native history as we know it. We've always been overrun with Western historical domination as they see it, that they came here for benevolence, they were brought a civilization, they brought us cars and tech, you know, all these things. It was the ships that came while we stood on the shore, watching the ships come, welcoming, abundance, giving. And then they came and they took what we offered, but they took more. And that's where we're at. And now we're seeing a whole abandonment of spirit and put into the ideas of a dogmatic soul. Where in Native is that we are shown the possibilities, and we're able to choose freely about what we're shown. We're never told to do this or say that or we were shown because it was a living and is a living language. Learning is a living, it's not a stagnant informational data bank. So this is how education is to me.”
https://firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/
https://akantuintelligence.org
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Songs featured on this episode are “Butterfly Against the Wind”
And from the album Somewhere In There
“Spatial Moon” and “Sunrise Moon”
Composed by Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Alex Alexander
Music on this episode is courtesy of Tiokasin Ghosthorse.
In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Len and Hwei-ru Tsou, Taiwanese activists whose main commitment, over a period of decades, has been to discover and disclose the involvement of Asian and South Asian anti-fascists in the International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. Today’s conversation is perhaps one of the most unusual and unusually important ones we have had on the podcast. Not only do we discover their longstanding friendship with the celebrated anarchist David Graeber and his father during this journey, but we also hear them linking their anti-fascist work to their pro-Palestine activism, which included their participation in the flotillas of X and Y protesting Israel’s illegal blockade of Gaza. We hear Len and Nancy (Ruwei’s English name) draw the links between the anti-fascist struggle in Spain and the international movement for Palestinian rights. The conversation inspires and gives one hope about international solidarity in the past, and the present.
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
www.instagram.com/speaking_out_of_place
In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with Marthie Momberg, whose book 21 Voices from Israel and South Africa: Why the Palestinian Struggle Matters, compiles interviews Momberg conducted over many years. Her interviewees are Israelis and South Africans who have followed different paths to become activists for Palestine. Momberg herself is a South African Jew, who slowly began to see the connections between South African apartheid and Israel’s own form of apartheid. The 21 voices speak about this connection, but about many other things as well, including gender, generational difference, race, human rights, and Zionism. Taped in December during Israel’s genocidal attacks on Gaza, which have brought millions onto the streets in protest across the globe, Marthie’s book serves as a vibrant reminder of the spirit of solidarity.
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
www.instagram.com/speaking_out_of_place
"One of the clearest things that we find in studying all of these lives is we know that every life has hardship, every life has sorrow, and nobody's happy all the time. Doesn't matter how privileged you are, how rich, how famous, nobody's happy all the time.
And that's important to name because we can sometimes give each other the mistaken impression that if you just do all the right things, you'll be happy. So if you look at somebody else's social media feeds, they're not posting their photos of when they feel miserable or hungover. They're posting their photos of when they've been at a good party or on a beautiful beach. And so we can give each other the impression that everybody else is living their best life and they're happy all the time. And it's just me who has ups and downs. And what we find and what we put in the book through these life stories...we put in life stories, not of happy endings, but of real stories of ups and downs and challenges and joys as well."
What makes a good life? How important are relationships in helping us lead happy and meaningful lives?
Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development at Massachusetts General Hospital, and cofounder of the Lifespan Research Foundation. Dr. Waldinger received his AB from Harvard College and his MD from Harvard Medical School. He is a practicing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, and he directs a psychotherapy teaching program for Harvard psychiatry residents. He is also a Zen master (Roshi) and teaches meditation in New England and around the world. His TED Talk about the Harvard study “What makes a good life?” has been viewed more than 42 million times and is one of the 10 most watched TED Talks ever. He is co-author of The Good Life: Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness.
https://www.robertwaldinger.com/
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Good-Life/Robert-Waldinger/9781982166694
https://www.adultdevelopmentstudy.org/
https://www.lifespanresearch.org
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
What makes a good life? How important are relationships in helping us lead happy and meaningful lives?
Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development at Massachusetts General Hospital, and cofounder of the Lifespan Research Foundation. Dr. Waldinger received his AB from Harvard College and his MD from Harvard Medical School. He is a practicing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, and he directs a psychotherapy teaching program for Harvard psychiatry residents. He is also a Zen master (Roshi) and teaches meditation in New England and around the world. His TED Talk about the Harvard study “What makes a good life?” has been viewed more than 42 million times and is one of the 10 most watched TED Talks ever. He is co-author of The Good Life: Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness.
"One of the clearest things that we find in studying all of these lives is we know that every life has hardship, every life has sorrow, and nobody's happy all the time. Doesn't matter how privileged you are, how rich, how famous, nobody's happy all the time.
And that's important to name because we can sometimes give each other the mistaken impression that if you just do all the right things, you'll be happy. So if you look at somebody else's social media feeds, they're not posting their photos of when they feel miserable or hungover. They're posting their photos of when they've been at a good party or on a beautiful beach. And so we can give each other the impression that everybody else is living their best life and they're happy all the time. And it's just me who has ups and downs. And what we find and what we put in the book through these life stories...we put in life stories, not of happy endings, but of real stories of ups and downs and challenges and joys as well."
https://www.robertwaldinger.com/
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Good-Life/Robert-Waldinger/9781982166694
https://www.adultdevelopmentstudy.org/
https://www.lifespanresearch.org
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
From the publisher's feed
Social Justice & Activism episodes of the popular The Creative Process podcast. We speak to activists, environmental organizations, indigenous groups, artists, writers & others who have devoted their life to making a difference.
Exploring the fascinating minds of creative people. Conversations with writers, artists & creative thinkers across the Arts & STEM. We discuss their life, work & artistic practice. Winners of Oscar, Emmy, Tony, Pulitzer, leaders & public figures share real experiences & offer valuable insights. Notable guests and participating museums and organizations include: Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences, Neil Patrick Harris, Smithsonian, Roxane Gay, Musée Picasso, EARTHDAY.ORG, Neil Gaiman, UNESCO, Joyce Carol Oates, Mark Seliger, Acropolis Museum, Hilary Mantel, Songwriters Hall of Fame, George Saunders, The New Museum, Lemony Snicket, Pritzker Architecture Prize, Hans-Ulrich Obrist, Serpentine Galleries, Joe Mantegna, PETA, Greenpeace, EPA, Morgan Library & Museum, and many others.
The interviews are hosted by founder and creative educator Mia Funk with the participation of students, universities, and collaborators from around the world. These conversations are also part of our traveling exhibition.

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